[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-1: Allow Inter-regional ASN Transfers

[Chris Woodfield]

Hi Mike,

I’d consider it very poor argument to promote a policy proposal solely based on its adoption in other RIRs. Various RIRs, and the regions they represent, often have unique, and sometimes conflicting requirements for management of internet resources, and as such we should be evaluating proposals on their merits. Adoption by other RIRs is one input for consideration, but should never be the primary input.

The Policy Development Process requires that the proposal in question present a clear problem statement and come to a consensus as a community that the language being proposed solves that statement. As such, we must carefully consider both the problem statement, *and* the policy language proposed. This is the main motivation for the discussions you’re seeing re: the problem statement itself; we simply can’t adopt a policy based on a non-specific problem, and a simple apparent lack of downsides of adopting the proposed edit to the NRPM. 

As such, on the PPML we’ve seen several viable justifications for this proposal; I’d expect at least one, if not both, to eventually find its way into a modified problem statement, and once that’s done, we can discuss the proposal itself as to whether or not it solves the issue as proposed and the relative merits and costs thereof.

Hope this helps,

-Chris

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  
> The transfer logs at APNIC and RIPE indicate that inter-regional transfers have been completed.
> I consider that objective evidence of need for this functionality. 
>  
> Can somebody provide a downside to the approval of this policy?
> Staff work? The heavy lifting has already been provided by APNIC and RIPE.
>  
> Is it important for us to determine every possible reason why people need this functionality?
> Shouldn’t our default position be trying to answer their need unless there is a reason not to?
>  
> Regards,
> Mike
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:40 AM
> To: WOOD Alison * DAS <Alison.WOOD at oregon.gov>
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-1: Allow Inter-regional ASN Transfers
>  
> IMHO, yes.
>  
> For A), I’m not sure I see the need to support these transactions. We don’t support them for IPv6 (nor do I think we want to).
> Sales of IPv4 addresses were a stop-gap to deal with a situation of scarcity, free pool exhaustion, and getting by until v6
> is widely enough deployed. Hopefully they will eventually go away and we can return to more traditional forms of resource management.
>  
> For B), I’m still not convinced. They can’t move their IPv6 resources (nor do I think we want to support doing so). The ability to move their IPv4 resources is largely an artifact of the same scarcity/free pool exhaustion described above. However, my objections to solving this particular problem are a bit less than my objections to solving problem A).
>  
> Owen
>  
>> On Feb 1, 2018, at 06:51 , WOOD Alison * DAS <Alison.WOOD at oregon.gov <mailto:Alison.WOOD at oregon.gov>> wrote:
>>  
>> Thank you all for the excellent feedback on this draft.
>>  
>> Considering James’ suggestions, would the community prefer to take each point as a different proposal?  They seem to be two different solutions to two different issues.
>>  
>> Thanks!
>>  
>> -Alison
>>  
>> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of james machado
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:47 PM
>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-1: Allow Inter-regional ASN Transfers
>>  
>> So we seem to have 2  "problems" for this draft if I am reading correctly.
>>  
>> A) An Entity wishes to buy/sell/transfer one or more ASN(s) to another Entity without regard of the destination RIR.  
>>  
>> B) Entity with one or more ASN(s) wishes to move one or more ASN(s) to a new RIR, possibly complementing an IP move, to begin/continue operations in the destination RIR.
>>  
>> James
>>  
>>  
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>  
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