[arin-ppml] 2015-2
Rudolph Daniel
rudi.daniel at gmail.com
Thu May 28 12:29:24 EDT 2015
<<<"I've attended ARIN, RIPE, and LACNIC in the last few weeks and I think
that there is significant support for the idea of trying to craft a global
policy on inter-RIR transfers.">>>
I would support the crafting of such a policy for IPv4.
I don't hear the requirement for IPv6.
But what would it mean down line if there were no such global policy?
RD
On May 28, 2015 12:00 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers
> to Specified Recipients) (John Curran)
> 2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR
> Transfers
> to Specified Recipients) (David Huberman)
> 3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers
> to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong)
> 4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers
> to Specified Recipients) (Jason Schiller)
> 5. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers
> to Specified Recipients) (John Santos)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:49:29 +0000
> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID: <6FDFDCBB-7019-4A42-9A62-CA4BBABCE267 at corp.arin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> >
> > My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use
> that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to
> another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> >
> > So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the
> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently
> transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for
> at least 12 months.
>
> That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that
> effect.
>
> To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer
> policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy
> explicit
> in this regard in determination of compatibility.
>
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:58:52 +0000
> From: David Huberman <David.Huberman at microsoft.com>
> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID:
> <
> DM2PR03MB39841219CDC3FC02405B6949BCA0 at DM2PR03MB398.namprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I've attended ARIN, RIPE, and LACNIC in the last few weeks and I think
> that there is significant support for the idea of trying to craft a global
> policy on inter-RIR transfers.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf
> of John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 4:49:29 AM
> To: Owen DeLong
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
>
> On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> >
> > My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use
> that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to
> another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> >
> > So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the
> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently
> transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for
> at least 12 months.
>
> That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that
> effect.
>
> To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer
> policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy
> explicit
> in this regard in determination of compatibility.
>
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 14:27:22 +0200
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID: <4023727F-EF91-4BED-A2EC-E00CFA55707E at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.
>
> Owen
>
> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> >
> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use
> that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to
> another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> >>
> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the
> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently
> transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for
> at least 12 months.
> >
> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that
> effect.
> >
> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated
> transfer
> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy
> explicit
> > in this regard in determination of compatibility.
> >
> > /John
> >
> > John Curran
> > President and CEO
> > ARIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:46:55 -0400
> From: Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAC4yj2VyWuZEQJFKOzC7zy1o3tXvk7JWnK1H95A28kt6XYJ0Og at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Owen,
>
> How does that differ from the policy text I sent?
>
> Can you send an idea of policy text?
>
> I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to
> another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been
> the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will
> be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered
> resource for the balance of the 12 months.
>
> ___Jason
> On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
> > Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> > addresses to different regions staying with the same organization.
> However,
> > if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely
> use
> > that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them
> to
> > another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> > >>
> > >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the
> > same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to
> subsequently
> > transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party
> for
> > at least 12 months.
> > >
> > > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> > > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that
> > effect.
> > >
> > > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated
> > transfer
> > > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy
> > explicit
> > > in this regard in determination of compatibility.
> > >
> > > /John
> > >
> > > John Curran
> > > President and CEO
> > > ARIN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:26:23 -0400
> From: John Santos <JOHN at egh.com>
> To: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID: <1150528104822.28183B-100000 at joonya.egh.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 28 May 2015, John Curran wrote:
>
> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use
> that as a way to move addresses o
> > ut of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an
> RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> > >
> > > So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the
> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently
> transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for
> at least 12 months.
> >
> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that
> effect.
> >
> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated
> transfer
> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy
> explicit
> > in this regard in determination of compatibility.
>
> If the penalty were that if you transfered out of your organization those
> addresses in less than 12 months, you could not receive new addresses
> (either from free pool or as the result of a directed transfer) UNDER ARIN
> until the 12 months were up, there would be no requirement of any change
> to any other RIR's rules nor any requirement of coordination with other
> RIRs.
>
> This could be handled under needs assessment. When a recipient comes to
> ARIN saying they need X addresses and currently have less than Y%
> available from our current total of Z addresses, ARIN would count
> addresses transfered out within the last 12 months as still being
> included in Z. Addresses transfered to another RIR and then out of
> the org would prevent the recipient from returning to the well
> repeatedly. But an org that messed up its planning once, got too
> many addresses and then decided to sell them would be okay.
>
> If they messed up twice (announce need in January and acquire addresses,
> decide in Feb that they don't really need them any more due to changed
> business plans or conditions and sell them, then turn around again in
> March to get more addresses) they would either be utterly incompetent,
> having screwed up their planning 3 times in a year, or they would be
> trying to game the system and their business plan is to flip addresses,
> not to provide an Internet service.
>
>
>
> --
> John Santos
> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML mailing list
> ARIN-PPML at arin.net
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>
> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 119, Issue 18
> ******************************************
>
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