[arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2

Sat May 30 17:48:47 EDT 2015

>>>That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in
question can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that
and those that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated
policy if they desire to do so.<<<

Tend to agree ...It may be better addressed at global policy level if at
all.
RD
On May 30, 2015 12:00 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR       Transfers
>       to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:16:34 -0700
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> To: Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
>         (Inter-RIR      Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID: <8A9F435E-20BF-4E90-9141-99A7D93FC6EE at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> If it were enforceable, it would address my concern.
>
> The problem is that we are then looking to have an ARIN contract enjoin an
> action by the organization in another RIR which I am not sure would give us
> any recourse whatsoever were that contract to be violated.
>
> That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question
> can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those
> that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they
> desire to do so.
>
> We?ve already seen that attempting to unilaterally influence minimum
> policy requirements on other regions is unlikely to work. Witness RIPEs
> recent ?workaround? to ?compatible needs basis?. I am not especially
> interested in expanding this problem space.
>
> Owen
>
> > On May 29, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Owen,
> >
> > So does this text cover your proposal then?
> >
> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2
> > Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> >
> > Date: 26 May 2015
> >
> > Problem Statement:
> >
> > Organizations that obtain a 24 month supply of IP addresses via the
> > transfer market and then have an unexpected change in business plan
> > are unable to move IP addresses to the proper RIR within the first 12
> > months of receipt.
> >
> > Policy statement:
> >
> > Replace 8.4, bullet 4, to read:
> >
> > "> Source entities within the ARIN region must not have received a
> >     transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources
> >     from ARIN for the 12 months prior to the approval of a transfer
> >     request.
> >      - This restriction does not include M&A transfers.
> >      - This restriction does not include a transfer to a wholly owned
> >         subsidiary out side of the ARIN service region
> >         if the recipient org will be required to not transfer any IP
> space
> >         for the remaining balance of 12 month window."
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:
> owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 28, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com
> <mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Owen,
> >>
> >> How does that differ from the policy text I sent?
> >>
> >> Can you send an idea of policy text?
> >>
> >> I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to
> another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been
> the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will
> be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered
> resource for the balance of the 12 months.
> >>
> >>
> > Your proposal allows substitution.
> >
> > ARIN->Other RIR space A
> > Space B Other RIR-> Money/etc.
> >
> > I want to see substitution transfers prohibited.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >> ___Jason
> >>
> >> On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com <mailto:
> owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> >> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.
> >>
> >> Owen
> >>
> >> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:
> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:
> owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use
> that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to
> another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> >> >>
> >> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in
> the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to
> subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an
> external party for at least 12 months.
> >> >
> >> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation
> of
> >> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to
> that effect.
> >> >
> >> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated
> transfer
> >> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer
> policy explicit
> >> > in this regard in determination of compatibility.
> >> >
> >> > /John
> >> >
> >> > John Curran
> >> > President and CEO
> >> > ARIN
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com
> >|571-266-0006
> >
>
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