<p dir="ltr"><<<"I've attended ARIN, RIPE, and LACNIC in the last few weeks and I think that there is significant support for the idea of trying to craft a global policy on inter-RIR transfers.">>></p>
<p dir="ltr">I would support the crafting of such a policy for IPv4.<br>
I don't hear the requirement for IPv6.</p>
<p dir="ltr">But what would it mean down line if there were no such global policy?<br>
RD<br><br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 28, 2015 12:00 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers<br>
to Specified Recipients) (John Curran)<br>
2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers<br>
to Specified Recipients) (David Huberman)<br>
3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers<br>
to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong)<br>
4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers<br>
to Specified Recipients) (Jason Schiller)<br>
5. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers<br>
to Specified Recipients) (John Santos)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:49:29 +0000<br>
From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4<br>
(Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FDFDCBB-7019-4A42-9A62-CA4BBABCE267@corp.arin.net">6FDFDCBB-7019-4A42-9A62-CA4BBABCE267@corp.arin.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br>
><br>
> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.<br>
<br>
That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br>
another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.<br>
<br>
To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer<br>
policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit<br>
in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br>
<br>
/John<br>
<br>
John Curran<br>
President and CEO<br>
ARIN<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:58:52 +0000<br>
From: David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>><br>
To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>>, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4<br>
(Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:DM2PR03MB39841219CDC3FC02405B6949BCA0@DM2PR03MB398.namprd03.prod.outlook.com">DM2PR03MB39841219CDC3FC02405B6949BCA0@DM2PR03MB398.namprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
I've attended ARIN, RIPE, and LACNIC in the last few weeks and I think that there is significant support for the idea of trying to craft a global policy on inter-RIR transfers.<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 4:49:29 AM<br>
To: Owen DeLong<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
<br>
On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br>
><br>
> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.<br>
<br>
That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br>
another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.<br>
<br>
To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer<br>
policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit<br>
in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br>
<br>
/John<br>
<br>
John Curran<br>
President and CEO<br>
ARIN<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 14:27:22 +0200<br>
From: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4<br>
(Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4023727F-EF91-4BED-A2EC-E00CFA55707E@delong.com">4023727F-EF91-4BED-A2EC-E00CFA55707E@delong.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
> On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br>
>><br>
>> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.<br>
><br>
> That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br>
> another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.<br>
><br>
> To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer<br>
> policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit<br>
> in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br>
><br>
> /John<br>
><br>
> John Curran<br>
> President and CEO<br>
> ARIN<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:46:55 -0400<br>
From: Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a>><br>
To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4<br>
(Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAC4yj2VyWuZEQJFKOzC7zy1o3tXvk7JWnK1H95A28kt6XYJ0Og@mail.gmail.com">CAC4yj2VyWuZEQJFKOzC7zy1o3tXvk7JWnK1H95A28kt6XYJ0Og@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Owen,<br>
<br>
How does that differ from the policy text I sent?<br>
<br>
Can you send an idea of policy text?<br>
<br>
I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to<br>
another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been<br>
the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will<br>
be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered<br>
resource for the balance of the 12 months.<br>
<br>
___Jason<br>
On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.<br>
><br>
> Owen<br>
><br>
> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of<br>
> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However,<br>
> if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use<br>
> that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to<br>
> another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br>
> >><br>
> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the<br>
> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently<br>
> transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for<br>
> at least 12 months.<br>
> ><br>
> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br>
> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that<br>
> effect.<br>
> ><br>
> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated<br>
> transfer<br>
> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy<br>
> explicit<br>
> > in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br>
> ><br>
> > /John<br>
> ><br>
> > John Curran<br>
> > President and CEO<br>
> > ARIN<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 11:26:23 -0400<br>
From: John Santos <<a href="mailto:JOHN@egh.com">JOHN@egh.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4<br>
(Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1150528104822.28183B-100000@joonya.egh.com">1150528104822.28183B-100000@joonya.egh.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
On Thu, 28 May 2015, John Curran wrote:<br>
<br>
> On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses o<br>
> ut of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br>
> ><br>
> > So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.<br>
><br>
> That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br>
> another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.<br>
><br>
> To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer<br>
> policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit<br>
> in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br>
<br>
If the penalty were that if you transfered out of your organization those<br>
addresses in less than 12 months, you could not receive new addresses<br>
(either from free pool or as the result of a directed transfer) UNDER ARIN<br>
until the 12 months were up, there would be no requirement of any change<br>
to any other RIR's rules nor any requirement of coordination with other<br>
RIRs.<br>
<br>
This could be handled under needs assessment. When a recipient comes to<br>
ARIN saying they need X addresses and currently have less than Y%<br>
available from our current total of Z addresses, ARIN would count<br>
addresses transfered out within the last 12 months as still being<br>
included in Z. Addresses transfered to another RIR and then out of<br>
the org would prevent the recipient from returning to the well<br>
repeatedly. But an org that messed up its planning once, got too<br>
many addresses and then decided to sell them would be okay.<br>
<br>
If they messed up twice (announce need in January and acquire addresses,<br>
decide in Feb that they don't really need them any more due to changed<br>
business plans or conditions and sell them, then turn around again in<br>
March to get more addresses) they would either be utterly incompetent,<br>
having screwed up their planning 3 times in a year, or they would be<br>
trying to game the system and their business plan is to flip addresses,<br>
not to provide an Internet service.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
John Santos<br>
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>
<a href="tel:781-861-0670%20ext%20539" value="+17818610670">781-861-0670 ext 539</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
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End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 119, Issue 18<br>
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</blockquote></div>