[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

[Elvis Velea]

Hi Cathy, McTim,

On 05/06/14 16:10, McTim wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:42 AM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com 
> <mailto:cja at daydream.com>> wrote:
>
>     Elvis..
>
>     I am sure with any policy folks will try to game the system.
>
You are right, I referred to a workaround that would game the system, 
but there is no actual policy requiring LIRs in the RIPE service region 
to only use addresses in that region.

>     From my experience with RIPE I think the community would not be
>     pleased if the last of the remaining /22s were all given to US
>     companies for use in the US.  But who knows.
>
I was talking about IP addresses received through transfers and not the 
last /22.
>
>     I went to a colleague at the RIPE NCC to get information for this
>     list.   Your summary that anyone can get as much address space as
>     they want from the RIPE NCC for 1600 Euros a year is not true
>
Yes it is, with the DN out the window, any RIPE member (LIR) can receive 
through the transfer market as many IP addresses as they need/want. Are 
you actually calling me a liar? Because that would be quite personal and 
not nice coming from an ARIN AC which " feels that cross pollination of 
ARIN with other RIRs as well as ARIN with other networking groups is 
essential to making good address policy."
>
>
>
> It's Euro1750 and not unlimited space.
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-591
It is going to be €1600.

http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/gm/may-2014/supporting-documents/ChargingScheme2015.pdf
And if the RIPE NCC continues to grow in membership, we may see a 
further lowering of the fee next year.

http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/gm/may-2014/RIPENCCChargingScheme2015.pdf
- slide 3 is very interesting.

What do you mean by not unlimited space? An LIR can receive a 'free' /22 
from the RIPE NCC and because the demonstrated need has been removed 
from the policy, anyone can receive through transfers as many IP 
addresses as they need/want.
Actually, if 2014-05 is approved by the community, these 'unlimited' 
transfers will be possible to other regions as well (off course, 
depending on the other region's policy).
>
>     and I wanted to make sure that for this discussion that we had a
>     more realistic assessment.   If folks want to become RIPE members
>     and misrepresent how the address space is going to be used that's
>     really up to them.
>
So my assessment is not realistic and your is?

This is not nice, again.

Anyway, we've moved a bit too much off-track. I think we should go back 
to the needs basis in the ARIN region.

My opinion is that for transfers, the DN should go away and that is the 
only way the registry can survive. As long as ARIN still has addresses 
to allocate, it should keep DN for that space but allow transfers within 
and outside the region to be correctly registered in the registry. These 
transfers do and will happen and we, brokers, see attempts very often. 
We are trying to raise a signal here but if the community or the ARIN 
Staff, AC, etc... decides to ignore the potential problem - there's not 
much we can do. We'll probably talk again in a few years :)

cheers,
elvis

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