[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

CJ Aronson cja at daydream.com
Thu Jun 5 10:53:15 EDT 2014


Elvis

My point was that the transfer market is not free so you may be able to get
addresses on the market.. maybe as many as you want but they are not
included in the annual RIPE fee..   They will cost money.  All you can
possibly get from RIPE for your annual fee is that one-time /22 and access
to the transfer market.   It is also the case (based on my discussions)
that RIPE asks you to use that address space within their region.

Thanks!
-----Cathy


On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Elvis Velea <elvis at velea.eu> wrote:

>  Hi Cathy, McTim,
>
>
> On 05/06/14 16:10, McTim wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:42 AM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>
>> Elvis..
>>
>>  I am sure with any policy folks will try to game the system.
>>
>   You are right, I referred to a workaround that would game the system,
> but there is no actual policy requiring LIRs in the RIPE service region to
> only use addresses in that region.
>
>    From my experience with RIPE I think the community would not be
>> pleased if the last of the remaining /22s were all given to US companies
>> for use in the US.  But who knows.
>>
>>     I was talking about IP addresses received through transfers and not
> the last /22.
>
>    I went to a colleague at the RIPE NCC to get information for this
>> list.   Your summary that anyone can get as much address space as they want
>> from the RIPE NCC for 1600 Euros a year is not true
>>
>   Yes it is, with the DN out the window, any RIPE member (LIR) can
> receive through the transfer market as many IP addresses as they need/want.
> Are you actually calling me a liar? Because that would be quite personal
> and not nice coming from an ARIN AC which " feels that cross pollination
> of ARIN with other RIRs as well as ARIN with other networking groups is
> essential to making good address policy."
>
>
>
> It's Euro1750 and not unlimited space.
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-591
>
> It is going to be €1600.
>
>
> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/gm/may-2014/supporting-documents/ChargingScheme2015.pdf
> And if the RIPE NCC continues to grow in membership, we may see a further
> lowering of the fee next year.
>
>
> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/gm/may-2014/RIPENCCChargingScheme2015.pdf
> - slide 3 is very interesting.
>
> What do you mean by not unlimited space? An LIR can receive a 'free' /22
> from the RIPE NCC and because the demonstrated need has been removed from
> the policy, anyone can receive through transfers as many IP addresses as
> they need/want.
> Actually, if 2014-05 is approved by the community, these 'unlimited'
> transfers will be possible to other regions as well (off course, depending
> on the other region's policy).
>
>
>
>
>>  and I wanted to make sure that for this discussion that we had a more
>> realistic assessment.   If folks want to become RIPE members and
>> misrepresent how the address space is going to be used that's really up to
>> them.
>>
>   So my assessment is not realistic and your is?
>
> This is not nice, again.
>
> Anyway, we've moved a bit too much off-track. I think we should go back to
> the needs basis in the ARIN region.
>
> My opinion is that for transfers, the DN should go away and that is the
> only way the registry can survive. As long as ARIN still has addresses to
> allocate, it should keep DN for that space but allow transfers within and
> outside the region to be correctly registered in the registry. These
> transfers do and will happen and we, brokers, see attempts very often. We
> are trying to raise a signal here but if the community or the ARIN Staff,
> AC, etc... decides to ignore the potential problem - there's not much we
> can do. We'll probably talk again in a few years :)
>
> cheers,
> elvis
>
>
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