[arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum

Sun Apr 18 23:16:51 EDT 2010

> We had a /24 from both. Neither provider would SWIP those blocks and show
> that we were assigned them. Both required the other provider to provide, in
> writing, authorization for us to announce the other provider's block.
> Neither provider would give a written authorization (although both required
> one). We went round and round and round. The damage done to my business was
> not insignificant.
> 
If you have a provider in the ARIN region that assigns you a block and refuses
to SWIP it or put it in their RWHOIS server, you should contact ARIN. Assuming
they are using ARIN issued space, the policy under which they received that
space clearly states that they are required to register it accordingly. If they
refuse, then, they have violated their RSA.
> 
> I know this will spark a round of "they can't\shouldn't\don't do that"
> emails from this list.... but they can and do. I certainly sympathize with
> Mr. Carpenter. I was forced to go buy an internet pipe I didn't need for a
> year just to get a /23 from a third provider. I ended up renumbering my
> network three times in the span of six months. This cost us thousands of
> dollars in time and lost customers. 
> 
I know this happens, but, until someone hands ARIN the smoking gun, there's
little that can be done about it.  Hence, I'm saying "Talk to ARIN about it" rather
than "Then can't/shouldn't do that" (which is obvious).

> And each time I tried to explain my situation to someone at ARIN the
> response was the same: "Well, that's the policy. We can't help you. Talk to
> your upstream provider."
> 
If you explained to ARIN that they were refusing to SWIP the space to you,
ARIN should have been able to do something about that. Feel free to
contact me off list or use the "Fraud Reporting" link on the ARIN web site
to try and get something done.

Owen

> Michael Young
> Generic Conferencing LLC
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Ryan Duda
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:48 PM
> To: Randy Carpenter
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> 
> Randy,
> 
> This is one road..
> 
> 1) Obtain an ASN, peer with Provider A and Provider B.
> 2) When the justification is there request an additional /24 from either 
> provider A or provider B.
> 3) Have efficient utilization of the 2 /24's.
> 4) Request a /22 from ARIN
> 
> 
> Ryan Duda
> 123.net
> 24275 Northwestern Hwy.
> Southfield, MI 48075
> Direct: 586.566.0564
> Fax: 586.620.8005
> NOC: 866.460.3503
> Email: rpd at 123.net
> 
> 
> 
> Randy Carpenter wrote:
>> They have a /24, but the ARIN policy states that if you need a /19, you
> already have to have 50% of that size already fully in use. Our specific
> situation is that the ISP was forced to use private IPs for purposes that
> should have been public to begin with.
>> 
>> 
>> -Randy
>> 
>> --
>> | Randy Carpenter
>> | V.P., IT Services
>> | First Network Group, Inc.
>> | Wapakoneta, OH
>> | (419)739-9240, x1
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> ----- "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf at tndh.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> IANAL ... but they already have public address space assigned by
>>> their
>>> provider. That may only be a /32, but that is still public, and it is
>>> assigned by their provider. It would likely help make the case if it
>>> were a
>>> static assignment, but dhcp is an assignment mechanism. YMMV
>>> 
>>> Tony
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
>>>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Randy Carpenter
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:56 PM
>>>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>>> Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am working with a new customer who is in a bit of a pickle...
>>>> 
>>>> They are an ISP and VoIP provider whose upstream provider wouldn't
>>> (or
>>>> couldn't) give them many addresses.
>>>> They resorted to using NATed private IPs for most of their network,
>>>> which is causing problems for their end user customers.
>>>> 
>>>> Now that we are working with them, I am trying to find a solution
>>> to
>>>> get them public IPs. They are also soon to be multi-homed (They have
>>> 2
>>>> connections, but no BGP yet). As an ISP, it would be best for them
>>> to
>>>> have PI space.
>>>> 
>>>> The issue is that one of the requirements for getting PI space from
>>>> ARIN is that you are already using Public space that was assigned
>>> to
>>>> you from an upstream provider. I spoke with someone from ARIN who
>>> says
>>>> there is no way around this. The need around a /19 of space, and I
>>>> cannot find any way to get it for them. The upstream providers
>>> refuse
>>>> to give them any.
>>>> 
>>>> What can be done about this?  Would would there be a requirement of
>>>> already using someone else's IP space to get your own? That seems
>>> like
>>>> a complete waste of time, effort, money, and IPs!
>>>> 
>>>> -Randy
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> | Randy Carpenter
>>>> | V.P., IT Services
>>>> | First Network Group, Inc.
>>>> | RHCE
>>>> | (419)739-9240, x1
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2818 - Release Date: 04/18/10
> 13:31:00
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-discuss/attachments/20100418/6df3ec25/attachment.html>