[arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum

Sun Apr 18 23:13:29 EDT 2010

The SWIP issue you experienced is interesting. If they assign you the space, they are required to SWIP it. Whether or not there is any real action ARIN is going to take regarding that, I am not sure. I have also never heard of tier-1 providers not providing the appropriate authorization for BGP. We and our customer have done this numerous times with many different providers.

-Randy

--
| Randy Carpenter
| V.P., IT Services
| First Network Group, Inc.
| Wapakoneta, OH
| (419)739-9240, x1
--

----- "Michael Young" <myoung at genericconf.com> wrote:

> Ryan,
> 
> You would think that would work. However, my company tried exactly
> that, and
> both providers refused to accept the other provider's block via BGP
> announcements.
> 
> We had a /24 from both. Neither provider would SWIP those blocks and
> show
> that we were assigned them. Both required the other provider to
> provide, in
> writing, authorization for us to announce the other provider's block.
> Neither provider would give a written authorization (although both
> required
> one). We went round and round and round. The damage done to my
> business was
> not insignificant.
> 
> I'm not going to name names, but the providers involved are both major
> Tier
> 1 US-based ISPs.
> 
> I know this will spark a round of "they can't\shouldn't\don't do
> that"
> emails from this list.... but they can and do. I certainly sympathize
> with
> Mr. Carpenter. I was forced to go buy an internet pipe I didn't need
> for a
> year just to get a /23 from a third provider. I ended up renumbering
> my
> network three times in the span of six months. This cost us thousands
> of
> dollars in time and lost customers. 
> 
> And each time I tried to explain my situation to someone at ARIN the
> response was the same: "Well, that's the policy. We can't help you.
> Talk to
> your upstream provider."
> 
> Michael Young
> Generic Conferencing LLC
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Ryan Duda
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:48 PM
> To: Randy Carpenter
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> 
> Randy,
> 
> This is one road..
> 
> 1) Obtain an ASN, peer with Provider A and Provider B.
> 2) When the justification is there request an additional /24 from
> either 
> provider A or provider B.
> 3) Have efficient utilization of the 2 /24's.
> 4) Request a /22 from ARIN
> 
> 
> Ryan Duda
> 123.net
> 24275 Northwestern Hwy.
> Southfield, MI 48075
> Direct: 586.566.0564
> Fax: 586.620.8005
> NOC: 866.460.3503
> Email: rpd at 123.net
> 
> 
> 
> Randy Carpenter wrote:
> > They have a /24, but the ARIN policy states that if you need a /19,
> you
> already have to have 50% of that size already fully in use. Our
> specific
> situation is that the ISP was forced to use private IPs for purposes
> that
> should have been public to begin with.
> > 
> > 
> > -Randy
> > 
> > --
> > | Randy Carpenter
> > | V.P., IT Services
> > | First Network Group, Inc.
> > | Wapakoneta, OH
> > | (419)739-9240, x1
> > --
> > 
> > 
> > ----- "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf at tndh.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> IANAL ... but they already have public address space assigned by
> >> their
> >> provider. That may only be a /32, but that is still public, and it
> is
> >> assigned by their provider. It would likely help make the case if
> it
> >> were a
> >> static assignment, but dhcp is an assignment mechanism. YMMV
> >>
> >> Tony
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
> >>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Randy Carpenter
> >>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:56 PM
> >>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
> >>> Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am working with a new customer who is in a bit of a pickle...
> >>>
> >>> They are an ISP and VoIP provider whose upstream provider
> wouldn't
> >> (or
> >>> couldn't) give them many addresses.
> >>> They resorted to using NATed private IPs for most of their
> network,
> >>> which is causing problems for their end user customers.
> >>>
> >>> Now that we are working with them, I am trying to find a solution
> >> to
> >>> get them public IPs. They are also soon to be multi-homed (They
> have
> >> 2
> >>> connections, but no BGP yet). As an ISP, it would be best for
> them
> >> to
> >>> have PI space.
> >>>
> >>> The issue is that one of the requirements for getting PI space
> from
> >>> ARIN is that you are already using Public space that was assigned
> >> to
> >>> you from an upstream provider. I spoke with someone from ARIN who
> >> says
> >>> there is no way around this. The need around a /19 of space, and
> I
> >>> cannot find any way to get it for them. The upstream providers
> >> refuse
> >>> to give them any.
> >>>
> >>> What can be done about this?  Would would there be a requirement
> of
> >>> already using someone else's IP space to get your own? That seems
> >> like
> >>> a complete waste of time, effort, money, and IPs!
> >>>
> >>> -Randy
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> | Randy Carpenter
> >>> | V.P., IT Services
> >>> | First Network Group, Inc.
> >>> | RHCE
> >>> | (419)739-9240, x1
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-Discuss
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