[ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

[Mike Burns]

Hi John,

 

In that case I would like to suggest indexing the transfer fee to the size
of the block transferred.

Perhaps the algorithm for this indexing could be adjusted to yield 1.33
times current transfer fee revenue.

In this way we don't have to make transfer fees payable upfront and
non-refundable.

 

It will be harder for us brokers to get sellers to fork over a
non-refundable transfer fee, since the transfer failure could easily be the
fault of the buyer, and what seller wants to risk $500 in that case? Buyer
may or may not be able to justify, should the seller be financing the
buyer's justification test?

 

When we brokers get the buyer to pay all transfer fees, he might cavil over
the fact that the failure cause could be the seller. Maybe the seller is
just using the buyer to finance his quest to get ARIN to recognize his
rights?

 

Yes, buyers can get pre-authorized, and sellers can get pre-authorized for
$100, so there are workarounds. But in general I am against this change to
non-refundable fees, and would prefer any shortfall to come from higher fees
on larger blocks.

 

I also think that overall it is more fair to charge more for larger block
transfers, even when the staff time is similar.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

 

From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at arin.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 5:08 PM
To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
Cc: ARIN <info at arin.net>; <arin-consult at arin.net> <arin-consult at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

 

On Sep 6, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com
<mailto:mike at iptrading.com> > wrote:

 

Currently the recipient pays except for 8.4 transfers.

ARIN requests the transfer fee from SELLER before the transfer is sent to
the recipient registry in those cases.

For inbound 8.4 transfers, the ARIN recipient pays the ARIN fee.

 

Mike - 

 

This is correct, and the proposed transfer fee change would be make the fee
process for

transfers within the region be consistent with transfers going out of region
(i.e. the source

paying the transfer fee.)

 

For a /24 sold from ARIN to APNIC or vice versa, the transfer fees total
$500 from ARIN and $161 from APNIC, or $661. In this case transfer fees
represent a whopping $2.60 per address, or almost a quarter of the cost of
the addresses themselves. 

 

True, although the work required is substantially the same regardless of
block size...

 

Considering that the number of small transfers is greater than large
transfers, and in light of current ARIN reserve$, I suggest reducing the
transfer fee for small blocks, or indexing the fee to the transfer size in a
way that maintains overall current transfer revenue numbers.  John says 1 in
4 transfers fail. I guess a substantial number are largish blocks that fail
as a result of nefarious activity involved in claiming old blocks and
selling them. The incentives for this behavior are less for small block
sales. Can we get a breakdown of failure rates by transfer size?

 

We may not be able to automatically generate such, but even so, we should be
able to 

manually assemble such data for review.   I shall look into this and report
back shortly. 

 

Ripe charges no transfer fee. APNIC charges a fee tied to the transfer size.
LACNIC charges $200 upfront, and $1300 before the transfer completes. 

 

While I do recognize the potential interest in fees charged in other
regions, I must ask 

that folks focus as much as possible on what fees they feel are appropriate
for ARIN to 

charge. 





As part of the consideration about making the $500 upfront and
non-refundable, are we able to discuss the transfer fee generally?

 

Certainly!  (If were to say otherwise, one could simply submit a suggestion
to the ARIN 

Consultation and Suggestion Process
<https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/acsp.html>,

which would result in another discussion thread on this mailing list; i.e.
let us save time 

and presume that the transfer fees in general are a fine topic for
discussion here.) 

 

Thanks!

/John

 

John Curran

President and CEO

ARIN

 

 

 

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