[ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

Tue Sep 6 16:59:09 EDT 2016

Hi Scott,

Yes, and ARIN charges $100 to do this now as part of the STLS seller-listing process.

Sellers can get prequalified and then choose not to be listed on the STLS if they wish.

If prequalified, they can sell in whole or in parts without further need for vetting.

Regards,

Mike

From: arin-consult-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:44 PM
To: arin-consult at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

It might be worthwhile to consider the transfer fee on the seller to be a fee for seller "prequalification", not tied to a particular recipient or transfer transaction, but rather to the block(s) being transferred.  If a transfer transaction falls through, the same work ARIN has already performed to validate the chain of custody and the seller's authority to transfer the space would be applicable to a subsequent transfer of the same space.  (Obviously if such validation fails, such as in the case of attempted fraud, the fee would still be non-refundable.)

-Scott

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> > wrote:

Jason wrote:

Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee.  Will that still be true and if so

can you clarify that language?

Hi Jason,

Currently the recipient pays except for 8.4 transfers.

ARIN requests the transfer fee from SELLER before the transfer is sent to the recipient registry in those cases.

For inbound 8.4 transfers, the ARIN recipient pays the ARIN fee.

For a /24 sold from ARIN to APNIC or vice versa, the transfer fees total $500 from ARIN and $161 from APNIC, or $661. In this case transfer fees represent a whopping $2.60 per address, or almost a quarter of the cost of the addresses themselves. Considering that the number of small transfers is greater than large transfers, and in light of current ARIN reserve$, I suggest reducing the transfer fee for small blocks, or indexing the fee to the transfer size in a way that maintains overall current transfer revenue numbers. 

John says 1 in 4 transfers fail. I guess a substantial number are largish blocks that fail as a result of nefarious activity involved in claiming old blocks and selling them. The incentives for this behavior are less for small block sales. Can we get a breakdown of failure rates by transfer size?

Ripe charges no transfer fee. APNIC charges a fee tied to the transfer size. LACNIC charges $200 upfront, and $1300 before the transfer completes.  As part of the consideration about making the $500 upfront and non-refundable, are we able to discuss the transfer fee generally?

Regards,

Mike

From: arin-consult-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net>  [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net> ] On Behalf Of Jason Schiller
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 3:27 PM
To: ARIN <info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> >
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> 
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

Can you clarify who is required to pay the fee, the source or the recipient?

>From the wording it sounds like if the source does not have an RSA then the source

must pay the fee when the transfer is initiated.  

Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee.  Will that still be true and if so

can you clarify that language?

__Jason

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:39 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> > wrote:

During its recent meeting held on 23 August 2016, the ARIN Board of
Trustees considered a change to the fee schedule as it pertains to both
Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM) section 8.3 and 8.4 transfers
(https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight3).

Currently about 25% of ARIN transfer request processing results in an
unsuccessful outcome, i.e. in 1 out of 4 requests, the transfer is
either abandoned or not approved. When transfer requests are
unsuccessful, ARIN incurs essentially the same processing costs as it
does for successful transfers.

To appropriately recover these costs, ARIN proposes collecting the
present $500 Resource Transfer fee at the beginning of the transfer
process as a non-refundable transfer processing fee. This fee would be
only be applicable to source organizations which do not have a
Registration Services Agreement (RSA) or Legacy Registration Services
Agreement (LRSA) when an 8.3 or 8.4 transfer request is submitted. This
fee change would replace the $500 Resource Transfer fee
(https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html) that is currently
collected at the end of the transfer process for approved requests.

We are seeking community feedback on this modification to ARIN’s Fee
schedule.

This consultation will remain open for (30) days, after which a summary
will be provided to the Board of Trustees for their consideration.

Discussion on arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net>  will close on 30 September 2016.

If you have any questions, please contact us at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> .

Regards,

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

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