[ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open

[Scott Leibrand]

It might be worthwhile to consider the transfer fee on the seller to be a
fee for seller "prequalification", not tied to a particular recipient or
transfer transaction, but rather to the block(s) being transferred.  If a
transfer transaction falls through, the same work ARIN has already
performed to validate the chain of custody and the seller's authority to
transfer the space would be applicable to a subsequent transfer of the same
space.  (Obviously if such validation fails, such as in the case of
attempted fraud, the fee would still be non-refundable.)

-Scott

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
>
>
> Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee.  Will that still
> be true and if so
>
> can you clarify that language?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jason,
>
>
>
> Currently the recipient pays except for 8.4 transfers.
>
> ARIN requests the transfer fee from SELLER before the transfer is sent to
> the recipient registry in those cases.
>
> For inbound 8.4 transfers, the ARIN recipient pays the ARIN fee.
>
>
>
> For a /24 sold from ARIN to APNIC or vice versa, the transfer fees total
> $500 from ARIN and $161 from APNIC, or $661. In this case transfer fees
> represent a whopping $2.60 per address, or almost a quarter of the cost of
> the addresses themselves. Considering that the number of small transfers is
> greater than large transfers, and in light of current ARIN reserve$, I
> suggest reducing the transfer fee for small blocks, or indexing the fee to
> the transfer size in a way that maintains overall current transfer revenue
> numbers.
>
>
>
> John says 1 in 4 transfers fail. I guess a substantial number are largish
> blocks that fail as a result of nefarious activity involved in claiming old
> blocks and selling them. The incentives for this behavior are less for
> small block sales. Can we get a breakdown of failure rates by transfer size?
>
>
>
> Ripe charges no transfer fee. APNIC charges a fee tied to the transfer
> size. LACNIC charges $200 upfront, and $1300 before the transfer
> completes.  As part of the consideration about making the $500 upfront and
> non-refundable, are we able to discuss the transfer fee generally?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* arin-consult-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-consult-bounces@
> arin.net] *On Behalf Of *Jason Schiller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 06, 2016 3:27 PM
> *To:* ARIN <info at arin.net>
> *Cc:* arin-consult at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open
>
>
>
> Can you clarify who is required to pay the fee, the source or the
> recipient?
>
>
>
> From the wording it sounds like if the source does not have an RSA then
> the source
>
> must pay the fee when the transfer is initiated.
>
>
>
> Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee.  Will that still
> be true and if so
>
> can you clarify that language?
>
>
>
> __Jason
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:39 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>
> During its recent meeting held on 23 August 2016, the ARIN Board of
> Trustees considered a change to the fee schedule as it pertains to both
> Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM) section 8.3 and 8.4 transfers
> (https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight3).
>
> Currently about 25% of ARIN transfer request processing results in an
> unsuccessful outcome, i.e. in 1 out of 4 requests, the transfer is
> either abandoned or not approved. When transfer requests are
> unsuccessful, ARIN incurs essentially the same processing costs as it
> does for successful transfers.
>
> To appropriately recover these costs, ARIN proposes collecting the
> present $500 Resource Transfer fee at the beginning of the transfer
> process as a non-refundable transfer processing fee. This fee would be
> only be applicable to source organizations which do not have a
> Registration Services Agreement (RSA) or Legacy Registration Services
> Agreement (LRSA) when an 8.3 or 8.4 transfer request is submitted. This
> fee change would replace the $500 Resource Transfer fee
> (https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html) that is currently
> collected at the end of the transfer process for approved requests.
>
> We are seeking community feedback on this modification to ARIN’s Fee
> schedule.
>
> This consultation will remain open for (30) days, after which a summary
> will be provided to the Board of Trustees for their consideration.
>
> Discussion on arin-consult at arin.net will close on 30 September 2016.
>
> If you have any questions, please contact us at info at arin.net.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
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> --
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
>
>
>
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