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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yes, and ARIN charges $100 to do this now as part of the STLS seller-listing process.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sellers can get prequalified and then choose not to be listed on the STLS if they wish.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If prequalified, they can sell in whole or in parts without further need for vetting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> arin-consult-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Leibrand<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:44 PM<br><b>To:</b> arin-consult@arin.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>It might be worthwhile to consider the transfer fee on the seller to be a fee for seller "prequalification", not tied to a particular recipient or transfer transaction, but rather to the block(s) being transferred. If a transfer transaction falls through, the same work ARIN has already performed to validate the chain of custody and the seller's authority to transfer the space would be applicable to a subsequent transfer of the same space. (Obviously if such validation fails, such as in the case of attempted fraud, the fee would still be non-refundable.)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Scott<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Jason wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee. Will that still be true and if so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>can you clarify that language?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi Jason,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Currently the recipient pays except for 8.4 transfers.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>ARIN requests the transfer fee from SELLER before the transfer is sent to the recipient registry in those cases.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>For inbound 8.4 transfers, the ARIN recipient pays the ARIN fee.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>For a /24 sold from ARIN to APNIC or vice versa, the transfer fees total $500 from ARIN and $161 from APNIC, or $661. In this case transfer fees represent a whopping $2.60 per address, or almost a quarter of the cost of the addresses themselves. Considering that the number of small transfers is greater than large transfers, and in light of current ARIN reserve$, I suggest reducing the transfer fee for small blocks, or indexing the fee to the transfer size in a way that maintains overall current transfer revenue numbers. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>John says 1 in 4 transfers fail. I guess a substantial number are largish blocks that fail as a result of nefarious activity involved in claiming old blocks and selling them. The incentives for this behavior are less for small block sales. Can we get a breakdown of failure rates by transfer size?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ripe charges no transfer fee. APNIC charges a fee tied to the transfer size. LACNIC charges $200 upfront, and $1300 before the transfer completes. As part of the consideration about making the $500 upfront and non-refundable, are we able to discuss the transfer fee generally?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult-bounces@arin.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Schiller<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 06, 2016 3:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult@arin.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Transfer Fees Now Open</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Can you clarify who is required to pay the fee, the source or the recipient?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>From the wording it sounds like if the source does not have an RSA then the source<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>must pay the fee when the transfer is initiated. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Currently it is the recipient that pays the transfer fee. Will that still be true and if so<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>can you clarify that language?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>__Jason<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:39 PM, ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>During its recent meeting held on 23 August 2016, the ARIN Board of<br>Trustees considered a change to the fee schedule as it pertains to both<br>Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM) section 8.3 and 8.4 transfers<br>(<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight3" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight3</a>).<br><br>Currently about 25% of ARIN transfer request processing results in an<br>unsuccessful outcome, i.e. in 1 out of 4 requests, the transfer is<br>either abandoned or not approved. When transfer requests are<br>unsuccessful, ARIN incurs essentially the same processing costs as it<br>does for successful transfers.<br><br>To appropriately recover these costs, ARIN proposes collecting the<br>present $500 Resource Transfer fee at the beginning of the transfer<br>process as a non-refundable transfer processing fee. This fee would be<br>only be applicable to source organizations which do not have a<br>Registration Services Agreement (RSA) or Legacy Registration Services<br>Agreement (LRSA) when an 8.3 or 8.4 transfer request is submitted. This<br>fee change would replace the $500 Resource Transfer fee<br>(<a href="https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html</a>) that is currently<br>collected at the end of the transfer process for approved requests.<br><br>We are seeking community feedback on this modification to ARIN’s Fee<br>schedule.<br><br>This consultation will remain open for (30) days, after which a summary<br>will be provided to the Board of Trustees for their consideration.<br><br>Discussion on <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult@arin.net</a> will close on 30 September 2016.<br><br>If you have any questions, please contact us at <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-Consult<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing<br>List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-consult@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-consult@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult</a> Please contact the ARIN Member Services<br>Help Desk at <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#555555'>_______________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" target="_blank">571-266-0006</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-Consult<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing<br>List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-consult@arin.net">ARIN-consult@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult</a> Please contact the ARIN Member Services<br>Help Desk at <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>