[arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals – Next Steps
Waqar Ahmad
waqar.ravian1 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 28 09:19:18 EDT 2025
Hi,
Thank you very much for the detailed overview.
Regards,
Waqar
On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 9:10 AM Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jordi,
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for providing the detailed overview of how other RIRs
> handle resource distribution to individuals.
>
>
> It’s very helpful to see the different practices and challenges clearly
> laid out.
>
>
>
> I agree that having proper but practical identity verification processes
> is important, and it’s encouraging to know that other regions have found
> workable solutions.
>
>
>
> This information will definitely help the ARIN community as we continue
> discussing the best way forward.
>
>
>
> Thank you again for your valuable input!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mohibul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:45 AM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next Steps
>> (jordi.palet at consulintel.es)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 10:44:20 +0200
>> From: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next
>> Steps
>> Message-ID: <BA047429-3373-480B-A7DE-AC6A5A994FF5 at consulintel.es>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Mohibul, all,
>>
>> I?ve already asked the staff of the 3 RIRs that support individuals (with
>> and without economical activity) to obtain resources, and this is the
>> summary:
>>
>> 1) RIPE NCC: About 5% of their members are natural persons (around 3%
>> with a registered business and 2% without). I believe that the number of
>> members at the end of 2024 was 20.167, so we are talking about 1.008
>> natural persons, from those 605 with registered business, 403 without.
>>
>> 2) APNIC: 5-10 members accounts have been created by natural persons (I
>> understand this is without economic activity, because the next sentence in
>> their response). Majority of APNIC Member are incorporated organizations
>> but we also have quite a few sole trader type Members.
>>
>> 3) AFRINIC: There is no explicit mention in the legal documents or
>> policies about ?individuals?, but it is clearly mention in the web site,
>> that individuals will qualify as end-users. However, up to date, they don?t
>> have any individual that has obtained resources.
>>
>> 4) LACNIC: The BIG problems here is that the policy manual literally
>> forbids individuals, because it say literally ?The numbering resources
>> under the stewardship of LACNIC must be distributed among organizations
>> legally constituted within its service region?. However, the impact
>> analysis of my policy proposal to change it said that LACNIC interprets
>> ?organizations legally constituted? as both juridical persons or physical
>> persons if they are registered in any of the legally valid self-employed
>> systems. In my opinion this is a big problem, because never it is a legally
>> valid interpretation to say that a physical person is an organization
>> legally constituted. So this MUST BE clarified, otherwise, an individual
>> with economical activity, when reading policies will interpret ?I?m not
>> eligible for acquiring resources?, and typically will not ask to LACNIC.
>> This is independent to the discussion of physical persons without economic
>> activity (or registration), to be able to get resources. The
>> argument from LACNIC is that physical persons aren?t registered into a
>> tax system (which I guess is wrong), and documents can be falsified ? I
>> prefer to refrain to comment on this ?
>>
>> Regarding your 2nd point below, I think there are several ways to be able
>> to verify documents from physical persons. I know RIPE NCC is doing it, but
>> I?ve suffered this personally in several occasions to verify my identity
>> for different processes in different regions. So clearly it can be done,
>> and I don?t think there are ?more? chances to miss a falsified document in
>> one or the other case, just depends on how good is the process.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jordi
>>
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>> > El 28 abr 2025, a las 2:06, Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib at gmail.com> escribi?:
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next
>> Steps
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > Thank you, Preston, for taking the initiative to submit an official
>> policy proposal regarding the distribution of resources to individuals.
>> >
>> > I truly appreciate the thoughtful discussions that have taken place on
>> this topic over the past few weeks.
>> >
>> > As someone who initially suggested that ARIN study the practices from
>> RIPE and APNIC in an official staff report (to better understand the
>> trade-offs), I am pleased to see the community moving toward concrete
>> action.
>> >
>> > I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary version of the
>> proposed text, if possible, and would also encourage that we continue
>> exploring:
>> > Lessons learned from other RIRs' approaches to individual allocations.
>> > Potential operational impacts (verification processes, anti-abuse
>> mechanisms).
>> > How to maintain fairness and transparency while broadening access.
>> >
>> > Looking forward to continuing this conversation during ARIN 55 and
>> beyond!
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Mohibul
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 6:11?PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
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>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Preston Ursini)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:10:49 -0500
>> >> From: Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com <mailto:
>> preston at thefirehorn.com>>
>> >> To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> Message-ID: <D1BE3305-0ED5-485A-BD3B-FAC8F6707327 at thefirehorn.com
>> <mailto:D1BE3305-0ED5-485A-BD3B-FAC8F6707327 at thefirehorn.com>>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> I believe there has been ample evidence from the community and first
>> hand evidence introduced to justify this being made into a policy proposal.
>> >>
>> >> I?ve sent an official policy proposal to policy at arin.net <mailto:
>> policy at arin.net> <mailto:policy at arin.net <mailto:policy at arin.net>> ;
>> hopefully this can be shepherded in with full ARIN support by ARIN 56, with
>> some sort of preliminary discussion even possible at ARIN 55.
>> >>
>> >> Preston Louis Ursini
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Apr 21, 2025, at 4:28?PM, arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
>> >> > arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> >
>> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> > arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>
>> >> >
>> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> > arin-ppml-owner at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-owner at arin.net>
>> >> >
>> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> > than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Today's Topics:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Mohibul Mahmud)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Message: 1
>> >> > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:28:36 -0400
>> >> > From: Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib at gmail.com <mailto:mhasib at gmail.com>>
>> >> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> > Message-ID:
>> >> > <
>> CABZHJ9+5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s+uVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og at mail.gmail.com
>> <mailto:
>> CABZHJ9%2B5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s%2BuVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og at mail.gmail.com>>
>> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive
>> >> > resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review
>> lessons from
>> >> > those models in an official staff assessment or community report?
>> >> >
>> >> > This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before
>> >> > considering any changes to our own policies.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Mohibul
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43?PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net
>> <mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
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>> >> >>
>> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> >> arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> >> arin-ppml-owner at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-owner at arin.net>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> >> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Today's Topics:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong)
>> >> >> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
>> >> >> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 1
>> >> >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700
>> >> >> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>
>> >> >> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >> Cc: Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>>,
>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >> Message-ID: <E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB at delong.com
>> <mailto:E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB at delong.com>>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> >> >>
>> >> >> While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide
>> is an
>> >> >> authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity
>> which
>> >> >> can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow
>> the
>> >> >> listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some
>> of those
>> >> >> states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal
>> name.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which
>> legally
>> >> >> exist in California in the SOS registry:
>> >> >> Delong Consulting
>> >> >> Owen DeLong and Family
>> >> >> Purple Politico
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms
>> and it
>> >> >> hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades
>> for
>> >> >> resources being registered to it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof
>> an
>> >> >> organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know
>> that that
>> >> >> record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All
>> you can
>> >> >> get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a
>> >> >> record, that the organization may or may not exist.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Owen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:
>> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ?Paul -
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at
>> WISPA),
>> >> >> ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry
>> and
>> >> >> that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA
>> names,
>> >> >> etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide
>> public-facing,
>> >> >> authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a
>> legal
>> >> >> entity which can be verified for every state in a clear,
>> consistent, and
>> >> >> neutral manner.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks,
>> >> >>> /John
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> John Curran
>> >> >>> President and CEO
>> >> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
>> <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my
>> state
>> >> >> business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I
>> started in
>> >> >> ,1979. Why?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 2
>> >> >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000
>> >> >> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>
>> >> >> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>" <
>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >> Message-ID: <81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F at arin.net <mailto:
>> 81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F at arin.net>>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:
>> owen at delong.com>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and
>> >> >> policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to
>> individuals
>> >> >> as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to
>> organizations
>> >> >> (and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option
>> or dba
>> >> >> for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance
>> >> >> specifically to individuals is certainly something that this
>> community
>> >> >> could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you
>> suggest
>> >> >> above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to
>> >> >> issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane
>> policy
>> >> >> nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy,
>> waiting
>> >> >> list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to
>> >> >> individual resource holders.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's
>> existing
>> >> >> operational practices and any implications for directly serving
>> individuals
>> >> >> are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal
>> review. )
>> >> >>
>> >> >> FYI,
>> >> >> /John
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John Curran
>> >> >> President and CEO
>> >> >> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> >> URL: <
>> >> >>
>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/8f4167f8/attachment-0001.htm
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 3
>> >> >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500
>> >> >> From: David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu>>
>> >> >> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>
>> >> >> Cc: Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org <mailto:ryan at rkhtech.org>>,
>> Preston Ursini
>> >> >> <preston at thefirehorn.com <mailto:preston at thefirehorn.com>>,
>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >> Message-ID:
>> >> >> <
>> >> >> CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH+6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg at mail.gmail.com
>> <mailto:
>> CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH%2B6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg at mail.gmail.com>>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button
>> for
>> >> >> ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect
>> ARIN to
>> >> >> have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not
>> >> >> available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the
>> SOS is
>> >> >> still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and
>> >> >> procedures in place to deal with that situation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining
>> that an
>> >> >> organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is
>> needed in
>> >> >> determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll
>> also
>> >> >> note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region
>> alone
>> >> >> is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating
>> in the
>> >> >> ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be
>> >> >> sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a
>> business.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations.
>> Individuals
>> >> >> only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer.
>> With that
>> >> >> context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are
>> >> >> organizations, not individuals.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com
>> <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a
>> person?s legal
>> >> >>> name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear
>> ARIN?s
>> >> >>> current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who
>> know
>> >> >>> which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get
>> ORG-IDs
>> >> >>> without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that
>> basis.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m
>> arguing that
>> >> >>> they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to
>> drop the
>> >> >>> ?organization? pretext altogether.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Owen
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <
>> >> >> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ?
>> >> >>> Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I
>> guess I was
>> >> >>> wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you
>> start
>> >> >> at
>> >> >>> $250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole
>> >> >>> proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu
>> <mailto:farmer at umn.edu>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web
>> site.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Thanks
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org
>> <mailto:ryan at rkhtech.org>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> David,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their
>> portal,
>> >> >>>>> and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment...
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Kind regards,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ryan Hamel
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> on behalf of David
>> >> >>>>> Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM
>> >> >>>>> *To:* John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> *Cc:* Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com <mailto:
>> preston at thefirehorn.com>>; arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> <
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please
>> take
>> >> >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources
>> from
>> >> >>>>> RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get
>> >> >>>>> resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the
>> >> >>>>> resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and
>> assigns
>> >> >>>>> them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the
>> LIR, not
>> >> >> RIPE,
>> >> >>>>> unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and
>> business
>> >> >>>>> practices.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known
>> as an
>> >> >>>>> ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a
>> >> >> practice
>> >> >>>>> here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and
>> deals
>> >> >>>>> directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as
>> individuals.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Preston -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated
>> on
>> >> >> fraud
>> >> >>>>> concerns.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> (Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud
>> practices that
>> >> >>>>> include various forms of government issued ID presentation and
>> >> >>>>> verification.)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <
>> preston at thefirehorn.com <mailto:preston at thefirehorn.com>>
>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy
>> >> >> proposal
>> >> >>>>> submitted for this?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be
>> considered,
>> >> >>>>> that a copy of a government issued identification document be
>> >> >> submitted to
>> >> >>>>> the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever
>> an
>> >> >> OrgID is
>> >> >>>>> issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which
>> seems to
>> >> >> be a
>> >> >>>>> pillar concern.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an
>> >> >>>>> Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID
>> just as
>> >> >>>>> sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN
>> operations in
>> >> >>>>> implementing this policy.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Preston Ursini
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Preston -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be
>> accepted as
>> >> >>>>> they are generally the same legal entity??)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the
>> >> >>>>> individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as
>> issuing
>> >> >>>>> resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and
>> for a
>> >> >>>>> suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to
>> >> >> organizations.
>> >> >>>>> The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for
>> ?the
>> >> >>>>> organization responsible for establishing the network? along
>> with a
>> >> >> postal
>> >> >>>>> address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in
>> 1997,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>>>> it?s what we continue to operate under.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it
>> >> >>>>> directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant
>> >> >> departure
>> >> >>>>> from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for
>> >> >> decades.
>> >> >>>>> Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal
>> entities,?
>> >> >>>>> that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For
>> example,
>> >> >>>>> companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often
>> >> >> referred to
>> >> >>>>> as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax
>> >> >> policy
>> >> >>>>> than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus,
>> >> >> shifting to
>> >> >>>>> a model that openly includes individuals could have significant
>> >> >> unintended
>> >> >>>>> implications for ARIN.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to
>> >> >>>>> understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN
>> accepts
>> >> >>>>> incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we
>> know
>> >> >>>>> networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case,
>> we?re
>> >> >> still
>> >> >>>>> issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might
>> be.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks!
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML <
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an
>> >> >>>>> Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same
>> legal
>> >> >> entity
>> >> >>>>> unless it is an individual?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United
>> States
>> >> >>>>> when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their
>> own
>> >> >> rules
>> >> >>>>> when it comes to business licenses and conducting business,
>> trying to
>> >> >> tie
>> >> >>>>> every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one
>> may
>> >> >> not be
>> >> >>>>> required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in
>> the
>> >> >> same,
>> >> >>>>> so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing
>> business
>> >> >>>>> with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better
>> approach would
>> >> >>>>> be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a
>> >> >> business/individual,
>> >> >>>>> with a government issued identification document; the trend with
>> >> >> having an
>> >> >>>>> officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the
>> direction in
>> >> >>>>> tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to
>> ensure
>> >> >>>>> accountability for resource allocation?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Preston Ursini
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml-owner at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-owner at arin.net>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> specific
>> >> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Today's Topics:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>> (jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es
>> >)
>> >> >>>>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Message: 1
>> >> >>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200
>> >> >>>>> From: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:
>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es>" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:
>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
>> >> >>>>> To: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>> Message-ID: <9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382 at consulintel.es
>> <mailto:9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382 at consulintel.es>>
>> >> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Hi John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A couple of questions on this:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and
>> ?inexpensive?
>> >> >>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
>> >> >> division
>> >> >>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of
>> keeping
>> >> >>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not
>> only
>> >> >> money,
>> >> >>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to
>> present
>> >> >>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
>> >> >> activity),
>> >> >>>>> is close to ?zero"?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
>> >> >>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
>> >> >> expensive
>> >> >>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
>> >> >> membership
>> >> >>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN
>> decisions,
>> >> >> instead
>> >> >>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and
>> of
>> >> >> course
>> >> >>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which
>> is
>> >> >> already
>> >> >>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Regards,
>> >> >>>>> Jordi
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> @jordipalet
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> escribi?:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ryan -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few
>> times
>> >> >>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard
>> and
>> >> >> we do
>> >> >>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain
>> number
>> >> >>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration
>> works,
>> >> >>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for
>> further
>> >> >>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the
>> problem to be
>> >> >>>>> solved.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org
>> <mailto:ryan at rkhtech.org>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources
>> are
>> >> >> under
>> >> >>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
>> >> >> tickets, and
>> >> >>>>> the legal team.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
>> >> >> several
>> >> >>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes
>> signing
>> >> >> ARIN's
>> >> >>>>> agreements.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Kind regards,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ryan Hamel
>> >> >>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> on behalf of David Farmer
>> >> >>>>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
>> >> >>>>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please
>> take
>> >> >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other
>> states; if
>> >> >>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you
>> don't
>> >> >> need to
>> >> >>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of
>> State,
>> >> >>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a
>> business; it
>> >> >> also
>> >> >>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not
>> under the
>> >> >>>>> owner's name.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating
>> that an
>> >> >>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
>> >> >> latitude
>> >> >>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as
>> a
>> >> >> business
>> >> >>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and
>> procedures
>> >> >> don't
>> >> >>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net> <mailto:
>> >> >>>>> jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
>> <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>
>> >> >> <mailto:
>> >> >>>>> pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Originally
>> >> >>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly
>> harmed
>> >> >> by
>> >> >>>>> this.
>> >> >>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to
>> register
>> >> >> with
>> >> >>>>> the Secretary of State.
>> >> >>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
>> >> >>>>> Secretary of State database.
>> >> >>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but
>> that
>> >> >>>>> wasn't good enough.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Paul -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
>> >> >> resulted
>> >> >>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
>> >> >> unable to
>> >> >>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013?
>> There
>> >> >> is a
>> >> >>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but
>> from all
>> >> >>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
>> >> >> is/was
>> >> >>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
>> >> >> understand
>> >> >>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do
>> so.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> **********************************************
>> >> >>>>> IPv4 is over
>> >> >>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> >>>>> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
>> >> >>>>> The IPv6 Company
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be
>> privileged or
>> >> >>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the
>> exclusive use
>> >> >> of
>> >> >>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
>> authorized
>> >> >>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> >> >>>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> strictly
>> >> >>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are
>> not
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> distribution
>> >> >> or
>> >> >>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,
>> including
>> >> >>>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a
>> criminal
>> >> >>>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform
>> about this
>> >> >>>>> communication and delete it.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> >>>>> URL: <
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>
>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/59eecf73/attachment-0001.htm
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Message: 2
>> >> >>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000
>> >> >>>>> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> To: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:
>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es>" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:
>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
>> >> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>> Message-ID: <19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949 at arin.net
>> <mailto:19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949 at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Jordi -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government
>> procedures
>> >> >>>>> across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you
>> >> >> note, it
>> >> >>>>> would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and
>> >> >> regulations
>> >> >>>>> are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that
>> this
>> >> >> is the
>> >> >>>>> case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by
>> organizations or
>> >> >>>>> individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given
>> portion
>> >> >> of
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably
>> flexible
>> >> >>>>> in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with
>> respect to
>> >> >>>>> confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate
>> within
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>>>> ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be
>> more
>> >> >>>>> straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are
>> >> >> incorporated,
>> >> >>>>> those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a
>> discussion
>> >> >>>>> because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to
>> >> >>>>> ?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is
>> >> >> effectively the
>> >> >>>>> same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network
>> >> >> customers
>> >> >>>>> may go about their legal registration.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks!
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML <
>> >> >>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Hi John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A couple of questions on this:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and
>> ?inexpensive?
>> >> >>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
>> >> >> division
>> >> >>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of
>> keeping
>> >> >>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not
>> only
>> >> >> money,
>> >> >>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to
>> present
>> >> >>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
>> >> >> activity),
>> >> >>>>> is close to ?zero"?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
>> >> >>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
>> >> >> expensive
>> >> >>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
>> >> >> membership
>> >> >>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN
>> decisions,
>> >> >> instead
>> >> >>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and
>> of
>> >> >> course
>> >> >>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which
>> is
>> >> >> already
>> >> >>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Regards,
>> >> >>>>> Jordi
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> @jordipalet
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> escribi?:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ryan -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few
>> times
>> >> >>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard
>> and
>> >> >> we do
>> >> >>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain
>> number
>> >> >>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration
>> works,
>> >> >>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for
>> further
>> >> >>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the
>> problem to be
>> >> >>>>> solved.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org
>> <mailto:ryan at rkhtech.org>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources
>> are
>> >> >> under
>> >> >>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
>> >> >> tickets, and
>> >> >>>>> the legal team.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
>> >> >> several
>> >> >>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes
>> signing
>> >> >> ARIN's
>> >> >>>>> agreements.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Kind regards,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ryan Hamel
>> >> >>>>> ________________________________
>> >> >>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:
>> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> on behalf of David Farmer
>> >> >>>>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
>> >> >>>>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please
>> take
>> >> >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other
>> states; if
>> >> >>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you
>> don't
>> >> >> need to
>> >> >>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of
>> State,
>> >> >>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a
>> business; it
>> >> >> also
>> >> >>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not
>> under the
>> >> >>>>> owner's name.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating
>> that an
>> >> >>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
>> >> >> latitude
>> >> >>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as
>> a
>> >> >> business
>> >> >>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and
>> procedures
>> >> >> don't
>> >> >>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net><mailto:
>> >> >>>>> jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
>> <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>
>> >> >> <mailto:
>> >> >>>>> pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Originally
>> >> >>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly
>> harmed
>> >> >> by
>> >> >>>>> this.
>> >> >>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to
>> register
>> >> >> with
>> >> >>>>> the Secretary of State.
>> >> >>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
>> >> >>>>> Secretary of State database.
>> >> >>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but
>> that
>> >> >>>>> wasn't good enough.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Paul -
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
>> >> >> resulted
>> >> >>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
>> >> >> unable to
>> >> >>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013?
>> There
>> >> >> is a
>> >> >>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but
>> from all
>> >> >>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
>> >> >> is/was
>> >> >>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
>> >> >> understand
>> >> >>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do
>> so.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>> /John
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> John Curran
>> >> >>>>> President and CEO
>> >> >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> **********************************************
>> >> >>>>> IPv4 is over
>> >> >>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> >>>>> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
>> >> >>>>> The IPv6 Company
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be
>> privileged or
>> >> >>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the
>> exclusive use
>> >> >> of
>> >> >>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
>> authorized
>> >> >>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> >> >>>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> strictly
>> >> >>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are
>> not
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> distribution
>> >> >> or
>> >> >>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,
>> including
>> >> >>>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a
>> criminal
>> >> >>>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform
>> about this
>> >> >>>>> communication and delete it.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
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>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >> >>
>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/4718a46d/attachment.htm
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML mailing list
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 17
>> >> >>>>> ******************************************
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>>>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> ===============================================
>> >> >>>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:
>> Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu>
>> >> >>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> >> >>>>> Office of Information Technology
>> >> >>>>> University of Minnesota
>> >> >>>>> 2218 University Ave SE
>> >> >>>>> <
>> >> >>
>> https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>> Phone: 612-626-0815
>> >> >>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>> >> >>>>> ===============================================
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> ARIN-PPML
>> >> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> >> >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> >> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> >> >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>> experience any issues.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> ===============================================
>> >> >> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:
>> Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu>
>> >> >> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> >> >> Office of Information Technology
>> >> >> University of Minnesota
>> >> >> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>> >> >> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>> >> >> ===============================================
>> >> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> >> >>
>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/53c44af4/attachment.htm
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> ARIN-PPML mailing list
>> >> >> ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
>> >> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 40
>> >> >> ******************************************
>> >> >>
>> >> > -------------- next part --------------
>> >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250421/7c398c04/attachment.htm
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > ARIN-PPML mailing list
>> >> > ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
>> >> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 41
>> >> > ******************************************
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> ARIN-PPML mailing list
>> >> ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
>> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 42
>> >> ******************************************
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > ARIN-PPML
>> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
>> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> communication and delete it.
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250428/d9e13094/attachment.htm
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-PPML mailing list
>> ARIN-PPML at arin.net
>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 46
>> ******************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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