[arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
Preston Ursini
preston at thefirehorn.com
Mon Apr 21 18:10:49 EDT 2025
I believe there has been ample evidence from the community and first hand evidence introduced to justify this being made into a policy proposal.
I’ve sent an official policy proposal to policy at arin.net <mailto:policy at arin.net> ; hopefully this can be shepherded in with full ARIN support by ARIN 56, with some sort of preliminary discussion even possible at ARIN 55.
Preston Louis Ursini
> On Apr 21, 2025, at 4:28 PM, arin-ppml-request at arin.net wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Mohibul Mahmud)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:28:36 -0400
> From: Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib at gmail.com>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> Message-ID:
> <CABZHJ9+5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s+uVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive
> resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review lessons from
> those models in an official staff assessment or community report?
>
> This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before
> considering any changes to our own policies.
>
> -Mohibul
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43?PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong)
>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
>> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700
>> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>> Cc: Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net>, arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> Message-ID: <E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB at delong.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide is an
>> authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity which
>> can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow the
>> listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some of those
>> states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal name.
>>
>> I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which legally
>> exist in California in the SOS registry:
>> Delong Consulting
>> Owen DeLong and Family
>> Purple Politico
>>
>> This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms and it
>> hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades for
>> resources being registered to it.
>>
>> ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof an
>> organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here.
>>
>> When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know that that
>> record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All you can
>> get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a
>> record, that the organization may or may not exist.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Paul -
>>>
>>> At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at WISPA),
>> ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry and
>> that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA names,
>> etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide public-facing,
>> authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a legal
>> entity which can be verified for every state in a clear, consistent, and
>> neutral manner.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> /John
>>>
>>> John Curran
>>> President and CEO
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my state
>> business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I started in
>> ,1979. Why?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000
>> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> Message-ID: <81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F at arin.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>> IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and
>> policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to individuals
>> as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships.
>>
>> While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to organizations
>> (and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option or dba
>> for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance
>> specifically to individuals is certainly something that this community
>> could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you suggest
>> above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to
>> issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals."
>>
>> Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane policy
>> nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy, waiting
>> list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to
>> individual resource holders.
>>
>> (I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's existing
>> operational practices and any implications for directly serving individuals
>> are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal review. )
>>
>> FYI,
>> /John
>>
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500
>> From: David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu>
>> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> Cc: Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org>, Preston Ursini
>> <preston at thefirehorn.com>, arin-ppml at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH+6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button for
>> ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect ARIN to
>> have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not
>> available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the SOS is
>> still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and
>> procedures in place to deal with that situation.
>>
>> Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining that an
>> organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is needed in
>> determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll also
>> note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region alone
>> is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating in the
>> ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be
>> sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a business.
>>
>> As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations. Individuals
>> only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer. With that
>> context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are
>> organizations, not individuals.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a person?s legal
>>> name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear ARIN?s
>>> current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who know
>>> which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get ORG-IDs
>>> without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that basis.
>>>
>>> I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m arguing that
>>> they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to drop the
>>> ?organization? pretext altogether.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <
>> arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I guess I was
>>> wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you start
>> at
>>> $250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole
>>> proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web site.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their portal,
>>>>> and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment...
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Hamel
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David
>>>>> Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM
>>>>> *To:* John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>>>>> *Cc:* Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net <
>>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>>>>>
>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources from
>>>>> RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get
>>>>> resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the
>>>>> resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and assigns
>>>>> them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the LIR, not
>> RIPE,
>>>>> unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and business
>>>>> practices.
>>>>>
>>>>> A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known as an
>>>>> ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a
>> practice
>>>>> here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and deals
>>>>> directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as individuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Preston -
>>>>>
>>>>> I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated on
>> fraud
>>>>> concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud practices that
>>>>> include various forms of government issued ID presentation and
>>>>> verification.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy
>> proposal
>>>>> submitted for this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be considered,
>>>>> that a copy of a government issued identification document be
>> submitted to
>>>>> the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever an
>> OrgID is
>>>>> issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which seems to
>> be a
>>>>> pillar concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an
>>>>> Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID just as
>>>>> sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN operations in
>>>>> implementing this policy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Preston Ursini
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Preston -
>>>>>
>>>>> That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be accepted as
>>>>> they are generally the same legal entity??)
>>>>>
>>>>> You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the
>>>>> individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as issuing
>>>>> resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and for a
>>>>> suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to
>> organizations.
>>>>> The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for ?the
>>>>> organization responsible for establishing the network? along with a
>> postal
>>>>> address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in 1997,
>> and
>>>>> it?s what we continue to operate under.
>>>>>
>>>>> While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it
>>>>> directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant
>> departure
>>>>> from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for
>> decades.
>>>>> Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal entities,?
>>>>> that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For example,
>>>>> companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often
>> referred to
>>>>> as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax
>> policy
>>>>> than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus,
>> shifting to
>>>>> a model that openly includes individuals could have significant
>> unintended
>>>>> implications for ARIN.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to
>>>>> understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN accepts
>>>>> incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we know
>>>>> networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case, we?re
>> still
>>>>> issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML <
>>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an
>>>>> Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same legal
>> entity
>>>>> unless it is an individual?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United States
>>>>> when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their own
>> rules
>>>>> when it comes to business licenses and conducting business, trying to
>> tie
>>>>> every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one may
>> not be
>>>>> required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in the
>> same,
>>>>> so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing business
>>>>> with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better approach would
>>>>> be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a
>> business/individual,
>>>>> with a government issued identification document; the trend with
>> having an
>>>>> officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the direction in
>>>>> tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to ensure
>>>>> accountability for resource allocation?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Preston Ursini
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, arin-ppml-request at arin.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
>>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> arin-ppml-owner at arin.net
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals
>>>>> (jordi.palet at consulintel.es)
>>>>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200
>>>>> From: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>>>>> To: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>>>>> Message-ID: <9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382 at consulintel.es>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of questions on this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?
>>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
>> division
>>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping
>>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only
>> money,
>>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present
>>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
>> activity),
>>>>> is close to ?zero"?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
>>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
>> expensive
>>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
>> membership
>>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,
>> instead
>>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of
>> course
>>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is
>> already
>>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jordi
>>>>>
>>>>> @jordipalet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> escribi?:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan -
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times
>>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and
>> we do
>>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number
>>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,
>>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further
>>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be
>>>>> solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are
>> under
>>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
>> tickets, and
>>>>> the legal team.
>>>>>
>>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
>> several
>>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing
>> ARIN's
>>>>> agreements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Hamel
>>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David Farmer
>>>>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
>>>>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>>>>>
>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if
>>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't
>> need to
>>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,
>>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it
>> also
>>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the
>>>>> owner's name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an
>>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
>> latitude
>>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a
>> business
>>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures
>> don't
>>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:
>>>>> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
>> <mailto:
>>>>> pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Originally
>>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed
>> by
>>>>> this.
>>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register
>> with
>>>>> the Secretary of State.
>>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
>>>>> Secretary of State database.
>>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that
>>>>> wasn't good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul -
>>>>>
>>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
>> resulted
>>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
>> unable to
>>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There
>> is a
>>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all
>>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
>> is/was
>>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
>> understand
>>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ARIN-PPML
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **********************************************
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000
>>>>> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>>>>> To: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>>>>> Message-ID: <19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949 at arin.net>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Jordi -
>>>>>
>>>>> The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government procedures
>>>>> across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you
>> note, it
>>>>> would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and
>> regulations
>>>>> are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that this
>> is the
>>>>> case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by organizations or
>>>>> individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given portion
>> of
>>>>> the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN.
>>>>>
>>>>> What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably flexible
>>>>> in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with respect to
>>>>> confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate within
>> the
>>>>> ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be more
>>>>> straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are
>> incorporated,
>>>>> those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a discussion
>>>>> because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to
>>>>> ?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is
>> effectively the
>>>>> same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network
>> customers
>>>>> may go about their legal registration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML <
>>>>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of questions on this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?
>>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
>> division
>>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping
>>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only
>> money,
>>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present
>>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
>> activity),
>>>>> is close to ?zero"?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
>>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
>> expensive
>>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
>> membership
>>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,
>> instead
>>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of
>> course
>>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is
>> already
>>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jordi
>>>>>
>>>>> @jordipalet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> escribi?:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan -
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times
>>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and
>> we do
>>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number
>>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,
>>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further
>>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be
>>>>> solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are
>> under
>>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
>> tickets, and
>>>>> the legal team.
>>>>>
>>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
>> several
>>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing
>> ARIN's
>>>>> agreements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Hamel
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David Farmer
>>>>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
>>>>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
>>>>>
>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if
>>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't
>> need to
>>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,
>>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it
>> also
>>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the
>>>>> owner's name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an
>>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
>> latitude
>>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a
>> business
>>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures
>> don't
>>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net<mailto:
>>>>> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
>> <mailto:
>>>>> pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Originally
>>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed
>> by
>>>>> this.
>>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register
>> with
>>>>> the Secretary of State.
>>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
>>>>> Secretary of State database.
>>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that
>>>>> wasn't good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul -
>>>>>
>>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
>> resulted
>>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
>> unable to
>>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There
>> is a
>>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all
>>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
>> is/was
>>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
>> understand
>>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /John
>>>>>
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ARIN-PPML
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **********************************************
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>>>>> The IPv6 Company
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ARIN-PPML
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ARIN-PPML
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>>>> Office of Information Technology
>>>>> University of Minnesota
>>>>> 2218 University Ave SE
>>>>> <
>> https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g
>>>
>>>>> Phone: 612-626-0815
>>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
>>>>> ===============================================
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
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