[arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
Mohibul Mahmud
mhasib at gmail.com
Mon Apr 21 17:28:36 EDT 2025
Hello,
Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive
resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review lessons from
those models in an official staff assessment or community report?
This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before
considering any changes to our own policies.
-Mohibul
On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43 PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong)
> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> Cc: Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net>, arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> Message-ID: <E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide is an
> authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity which
> can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow the
> listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some of those
> states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal name.
>
> I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which legally
> exist in California in the SOS registry:
> Delong Consulting
> Owen DeLong and Family
> Purple Politico
>
> This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms and it
> hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades for
> resources being registered to it.
>
> ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof an
> organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here.
>
> When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know that that
> record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All you can
> get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a
> record, that the organization may or may not exist.
>
> Owen
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> >
> > ?Paul -
> >
> > At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at WISPA),
> ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry and
> that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA names,
> etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide public-facing,
> authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a legal
> entity which can be verified for every state in a clear, consistent, and
> neutral manner.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > /John
> >
> > John Curran
> > President and CEO
> > American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my state
> business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I started in
> ,1979. Why?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARIN-PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000
> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> Message-ID: <81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F at arin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
> IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and
> policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to individuals
> as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships.
>
> While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to organizations
> (and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option or dba
> for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance
> specifically to individuals is certainly something that this community
> could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you suggest
> above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to
> issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals."
>
> Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane policy
> nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy, waiting
> list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to
> individual resource holders.
>
> (I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's existing
> operational practices and any implications for directly serving individuals
> are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal review. )
>
> FYI,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500
> From: David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org>, Preston Ursini
> <preston at thefirehorn.com>, arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH+6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button for
> ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect ARIN to
> have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not
> available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the SOS is
> still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and
> procedures in place to deal with that situation.
>
> Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining that an
> organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is needed in
> determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll also
> note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region alone
> is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating in the
> ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be
> sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a business.
>
> As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations. Individuals
> only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer. With that
> context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are
> organizations, not individuals.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
> > Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a person?s legal
> > name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear ARIN?s
> > current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who know
> > which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get ORG-IDs
> > without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that basis.
> >
> > I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m arguing that
> > they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to drop the
> > ?organization? pretext altogether.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> > On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <
> arin-ppml at arin.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I guess I was
> > wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you start
> at
> > $250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole
> > proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web site.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> David,
> >>>
> >>> I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their portal,
> >>> and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment...
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ryan Hamel
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David
> >>> Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM
> >>> *To:* John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> >>> *Cc:* Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net <
> >>> arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> >>>
> >>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
> >>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
> >>>
> >>> First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources from
> >>> RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get
> >>> resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the
> >>> resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and assigns
> >>> them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the LIR, not
> RIPE,
> >>> unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and business
> >>> practices.
> >>>
> >>> A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known as an
> >>> ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a
> practice
> >>> here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and deals
> >>> directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as individuals.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Preston -
> >>>
> >>> I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated on
> fraud
> >>> concerns.
> >>>
> >>> (Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud practices that
> >>> include various forms of government issued ID presentation and
> >>> verification.)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <preston at thefirehorn.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy
> proposal
> >>> submitted for this?
> >>>
> >>> I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be considered,
> >>> that a copy of a government issued identification document be
> submitted to
> >>> the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever an
> OrgID is
> >>> issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which seems to
> be a
> >>> pillar concern.
> >>>
> >>> For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an
> >>> Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID just as
> >>> sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN operations in
> >>> implementing this policy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Preston Ursini
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Preston -
> >>>
> >>> That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be accepted as
> >>> they are generally the same legal entity??)
> >>>
> >>> You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the
> >>> individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as issuing
> >>> resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and for a
> >>> suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to
> organizations.
> >>> The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for ?the
> >>> organization responsible for establishing the network? along with a
> postal
> >>> address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in 1997,
> and
> >>> it?s what we continue to operate under.
> >>>
> >>> While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it
> >>> directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant
> departure
> >>> from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for
> decades.
> >>> Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal entities,?
> >>> that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For example,
> >>> companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often
> referred to
> >>> as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax
> policy
> >>> than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus,
> shifting to
> >>> a model that openly includes individuals could have significant
> unintended
> >>> implications for ARIN.
> >>>
> >>> That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to
> >>> understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN accepts
> >>> incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we know
> >>> networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case, we?re
> still
> >>> issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might be.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML <
> >>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an
> >>> Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same legal
> entity
> >>> unless it is an individual?
> >>>
> >>> There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United States
> >>> when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their own
> rules
> >>> when it comes to business licenses and conducting business, trying to
> tie
> >>> every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one may
> not be
> >>> required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best.
> >>>
> >>> In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in the
> same,
> >>> so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing business
> >>> with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"?
> >>>
> >>> If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better approach would
> >>> be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a
> business/individual,
> >>> with a government issued identification document; the trend with
> having an
> >>> officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the direction in
> >>> tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to ensure
> >>> accountability for resource allocation?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Preston Ursini
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, arin-ppml-request at arin.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
> >>> arin-ppml at arin.net
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>> arin-ppml-request at arin.net
> >>>
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>> arin-ppml-owner at arin.net
> >>>
> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Today's Topics:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals
> >>> (jordi.palet at consulintel.es)
> >>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Message: 1
> >>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200
> >>> From: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >>> To: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> >>> Message-ID: <9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382 at consulintel.es>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> A couple of questions on this:
> >>>
> >>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?
> >>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
> division
> >>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
> >>>
> >>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping
> >>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only
> money,
> >>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present
> >>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
> activity),
> >>> is close to ?zero"?
> >>>
> >>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
> >>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
> expensive
> >>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
> membership
> >>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,
> instead
> >>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of
> course
> >>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is
> already
> >>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Jordi
> >>>
> >>> @jordipalet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> escribi?:
> >>>
> >>> Ryan -
> >>>
> >>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times
> >>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and
> we do
> >>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number
> >>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,
> >>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further
> >>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be
> >>> solved.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are
> under
> >>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
> tickets, and
> >>> the legal team.
> >>>
> >>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
> several
> >>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing
> ARIN's
> >>> agreements.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ryan Hamel
> >>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David Farmer
> >>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
> >>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> >>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> >>>
> >>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
> >>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if
> >>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't
> need to
> >>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
> >>>
> >>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,
> >>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it
> also
> >>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the
> >>> owner's name.
> >>>
> >>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an
> >>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
> latitude
> >>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a
> business
> >>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures
> don't
> >>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:
> >>> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
> <mailto:
> >>> pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Originally
> >>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed
> by
> >>> this.
> >>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register
> with
> >>> the Secretary of State.
> >>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
> >>> Secretary of State database.
> >>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that
> >>> wasn't good enough.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Paul -
> >>>
> >>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
> resulted
> >>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
> unable to
> >>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There
> is a
> >>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all
> >>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
> is/was
> >>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
> understand
> >>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> **********************************************
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> >>> The IPv6 Company
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> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Message: 2
> >>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000
> >>> From: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> >>> To: "jordi.palet at consulintel.es" <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> >>> Message-ID: <19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949 at arin.net>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>
> >>> Jordi -
> >>>
> >>> The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government procedures
> >>> across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you
> note, it
> >>> would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and
> regulations
> >>> are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that this
> is the
> >>> case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by organizations or
> >>> individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given portion
> of
> >>> the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN.
> >>>
> >>> What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably flexible
> >>> in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with respect to
> >>> confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate within
> the
> >>> ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be more
> >>> straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are
> incorporated,
> >>> those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc.
> >>>
> >>> Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a discussion
> >>> because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to
> >>> ?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is
> effectively the
> >>> same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network
> customers
> >>> may go about their legal registration.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML <
> >>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> A couple of questions on this:
> >>>
> >>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?
> >>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te
> division
> >>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?
> >>>
> >>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping
> >>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only
> money,
> >>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present
> >>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical
> activity),
> >>> is close to ?zero"?
> >>>
> >>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a
> >>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more
> expensive
> >>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or
> membership
> >>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,
> instead
> >>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of
> course
> >>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is
> already
> >>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Jordi
> >>>
> >>> @jordipalet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> escribi?:
> >>>
> >>> Ryan -
> >>>
> >>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times
> >>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and
> we do
> >>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number
> >>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,
> >>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further
> >>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be
> >>> solved.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan at rkhtech.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are
> under
> >>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org
> tickets, and
> >>> the legal team.
> >>>
> >>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in
> several
> >>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing
> ARIN's
> >>> agreements.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ryan Hamel
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of David Farmer
> >>> via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM
> >>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> >>> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals
> >>>
> >>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
> >>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if
> >>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't
> need to
> >>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.
> >>>
> >>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,
> >>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it
> also
> >>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the
> >>> owner's name.
> >>>
> >>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an
> >>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of
> latitude
> >>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a
> business
> >>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures
> don't
> >>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net<mailto:
> >>> jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net
> <mailto:
> >>> pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Originally
> >>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed
> by
> >>> this.
> >>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register
> with
> >>> the Secretary of State.
> >>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with
> >>> Secretary of State database.
> >>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that
> >>> wasn't good enough.
> >>>
> >>> Paul -
> >>>
> >>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that
> resulted
> >>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were
> unable to
> >>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There
> is a
> >>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all
> >>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there
> is/was
> >>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks
> understand
> >>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> /John
> >>>
> >>> John Curran
> >>> President and CEO
> >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> **********************************************
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> >>> The IPv6 Company
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> ------------------------------
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> >>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 17
> >>> ******************************************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ===============================================
> >>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
> >>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> >>> Office of Information Technology
> >>> University of Minnesota
> >>> 2218 University Ave SE
> >>> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>> Phone: 612-626-0815
> >>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
> >>> ===============================================
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> > ARIN-PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >
> >
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
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