[arin-ppml] prop266 - re-framing the discussion

[Owen DeLong]

> On May 2, 2019, at 08:48 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> El 2/5/19 17:39, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Nicolas Antoniello" <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> en nombre de nantoniello at gmail.com <mailto:nantoniello at gmail.com>> escribió:
>  
> ARIN (and so the other RIRs like LACNIC) are doing things to combat the problem more effectively, like fostering RPKI deployment and so... but police stuff remains (and I think it must remain) out of the scope of RIRs.
>  
> As said before, I’m fine if the RIRs don’t want to take actions, but they must have clear rules (policy text) that allows the victims to claim by other means if they wish. This is a way for the RIR to not get involved, but still facilitate the protection of the member’s rights.

There are already laws in the US that cover the cases ARIN could take action on.

ARIN policy doesn’t carry the force of law, so walking into court and saying “This person hijacked my ARIN space and that’s a violation of ARIN policy” isn’t all that likely to add anything useful to the process.

I’m loathe to predict what courts will do and I’m not a lawyer, but my guess is that whether or not hijacking is against ARIN policy isn’t going to have much impact either way on the case in question.

It will be interesting to see if we get a test case, whether the judge will consider ARIN registration to be sufficient to support any sort of claim against a hijacker. However, in order to guarantee that the court would do so, you’d need a civil code statute or a criminal law, not an ARIN policy.

Until there’s some form of legal precedent that ARIN registration conveys exclusive right to use on the internet by law, it’s merely a gentlemen’s agreement among cooperating parties.

Owen

>  
> Regards,
> Nicolas
>  
>  
> El jue., 2 de may. de 2019 a la(s) 09:19, Adam Thompson (athompson at merlin.mb.ca <mailto:athompson at merlin.mb.ca>) escribió:
>> Instead of focusing on whether the current proposal is or isn’t in scope, I suggest we re-cast the discussion as follows:
>>  
>> 1.       So far, we have unanimous community agreement that BGP hijacking is bad.
>> 
>> 2.       So far, we have broad agreement that “something ought to be done” about BGP hijacking, although detailed opinions vary significantly.
>> 
>> 3.       So what (else) can ARIN do about it?  (Caveat: the answer “nothing” is unacceptable to a significant proportion of PPML participants.)
>> 
>>  
>> My suggested direction to the AC and/or the board would therefore be:  Find something ARIN can do to help combat the problem (more effectively).  If this requires expanding the scope of ARIN’s operations or policies, bring that back to the membership (possibly via PPML?) with the accompanying financial & legal analysis, as usual.
>>  
>> Now the question becomes: what is the most appropriate mechanism, within ARIN’s existing policies, to bring a request like that to the AC and/or Board?  It seems clear to me that the petition already underway here is not meeting, and will not meet, the needs of the community very well.
>>  
>> -Adam
>>  
>> Adam Thompson
>> Consultant, Infrastructure Services
>> <image001.png>
>> 100 - 135 Innovation Drive
>> Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
>> (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
>> athompson at merlin.mb.ca <mailto:athompson at merlin.mb.ca>
>> www.merlin.mb.ca <http://www.merlin.mb.ca/>
>>  
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