[arin-ppml] [EXT] Re: Open Petition for ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking is an ARIN Policy Violation

[Marilson Mapa]

Carlos Friacas asked to Joe Probo:
Can we perhaps agree that a "rogue RIR member" could be more harmful to the
RIR system than a "rogue non-RIR member"...?

Carlos, your question is out of context because a "rogue RIR member" is
outside the scope of the ARIN PDP. Did you understand?

Marilson

Em qua, 1 de mai de 2019 às 16:53, Carlos Friaças via ARIN-PPML <
arin-ppml at arin.net> escreveu:

>
> On Wed, 1 May 2019, Joe Provo wrote:
>
> (...)
> >> By way of analogy, ARIN paints the lines on the roads and strongly
> encourages
> >> everyone to stay in their own lane and to try to drive at all times on
> the
> > [snip]
> >
> > Nope; ARIN is a registry. More appropriate analogies would be a
> > registry of deed or title that manage policy regarding subdividing
> > the same. When there's a conflict regarding such registrations in
> > the Real World (in our region), you go to law enforcement and courts.
> > Shockingly, that's what's encouraged in our cases.
>
> Hi,
>
> I have some trouble with the "registry of deed or title" analogy, because
> those (as i understand it) don't have a distribution function, nor are
> membership-based.
>
>
> >> Sorry to have to break the bad news to you all, but The Cowboy Era of
> the
> >> Internet is over.  It's time to make a few simple rules and all agree to
> >> live by them.  Because we're not all wild ass cowboys anymore.  We're
> >> shopkeepers and farmers and bankers and dentists.
> > [snip]
> >
> > To follow your previous line of argument, here you are actually
> > wanting to *revert* from the current state of engagement actual
> > law enforcement to private outsourcing. From this perticular
> > never-cowboy, I see the formation of a lynch mob, temeritas in
> > extremis.
>
> Obviously this is not how i see it.
> What i see is that country-based authorities don't have (almost) any
> window to act. However, the RIRs (jointly) have.
>
> And even regarding legacy holders, while resources can't be revoked, the
> RIR could potentially stop providing services to "rogue" legacy holders --
> i was involved in the RIPE proposal to allow services to legacy holders,
> some years ago. And of course, regarding IPv6, the RIRs (jointly) have
> "full authority".
>
>
>
> >> If someone wants to explain to me how this very minimalist request is
> totally
> >> unreasonable, I'm all ears.
> >
> > This proposal conflates the PDP work by the community on the NRPM
> > with ARIN's legal work on [L]RSA. IMO, the proper approach would
> > be to file through ACSP, since it specifically exists to take
> > "suggestion[s] regarding an existing or potential ARIN service
> > or practice" (https://account.arin.net/public/acsp). Very simply,
> > suggesting the ARIN BoT update the RSA with very specific language
> > regarding hijacking and calling out specific actions or remedies.
>
> I'm not sure i got all of it :-)
> Do you think that will work regarding already signed RSAs...?
>
>
> > That at least express the desired norms in contract, despite the
> > reality that most perps will not be under that contract.
>
> You are saying a new rule is bad because will not catch all or the
> majority of cases...? I mostly worry about cases where hijacks are part of
> a well defined business model.
>
> Can we perhaps agree that a "rogue RIR member" could be more harmful
> to the RIR system than a "rogue non-RIR member"...?
>
>
> Regards,
> Carlos
>
>
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --
> > Posted from my personal account - see X-Disclaimer header.
> > Joe Provo / Gweep / Earthling
> > _______________________________________________
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