[arin-ppml] ARIN-2019-7: Elimination of the Waiting List (was:Re: Looking for final show of support on revised Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests

Fri Jun 7 15:35:45 EDT 2019

Not selling or idling is a market norm. Even if because of inconvenience or
laziness. Markets fix that on their own.

On revoked resources? Its a good question. Abandoned things are frequently
auctioned. As long as “profit” translated to member benefits such as fee
reductions, all good here.

Getting rid of the waiting list isn't dependent on resolving that IMHO.
Good idea, Bill Herrin.

Thanks

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 15:29 David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> The problem is not everyone wants to sell them, many people don't want to
> deal with the hassle, they just want to return the addresses. Also, are you
> suggesting that ARIN should just let resources remain in the registry if
> people don't pay their bill? Please explain how the market will figure out
> people that don't want to participate, people that don't pay their bills,
> or people that commit fraud against the registry? The market can do a lot,
> but I don't think it can deal with those issues.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 2:16 PM Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> ARIN doesn't have to profit. Kill the list and concept. Let the market
>> sort it out. Don't accept returns at all. “Policy” aside, it is that
>> simple.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 14:56 David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Those of you who support Elimination of the Waiting List, effectively
>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-7 should read the Staff and Legal Review for the
>>> policy posted on April 29th.
>>>
>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_7/
>>>
>>> In particular the Legal Assessment;
>>>
>>> This policy requires legal comment. ARIN’s Articles and Bylaws do not
>>> specifically prohibit ARIN from monetizing returned or revoked resources by
>>> selling those resources into the transfer market, as an alternative to
>>> allocating some amended version of the wait list policy. Fraud underlying
>>> any waiting list policy issuance is an appropriate policy concern. However,
>>> ARIN revokes address resources from those who fail to make required payment
>>> s to ARIN which makes up almost all revocations; and in the rare cases of
>>> breach of the RSA or fraud in the obtaining the allocation. Today, ARIN
>>> does not financially benefit in any material way from such revocations.
>>> Adoption of this policy would for the first time allow the party in a
>>> contested revocation situation to argue that ARIN seeks to financially
>>> benefit. Avoiding that concern is also significant.
>>>
>>>
>>> Based on this assessment, I find it difficult to support this course of
>>> action or this policy.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:41 AM Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Robert and Bill that it is an illogical market distortion
>>>> to have this source of free addresses.
>>>>
>>>> And that the assumption that “need” at an earlier point in time is
>>>> still the same “need” when addresses randomly come available in the future
>>>> is faulty.
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to starve the waiting list to death, but apparently it
>>>> continues to be fed by various inputs.
>>>>
>>>> (I think recovered addresses should be returned to IANA or added to
>>>> another reserve pool at ARIN instead of adding them to waiting list
>>>> inventory.)
>>>>
>>>> I don’t support the selling of addresses by ARIN.
>>>>
>>>> I think the 5 year waiting period is 4 years too long.
>>>>
>>>> I think the recent recovery of fraudulently allocated space means that
>>>> those already on the waiting list should be grandfathered-in regarding
>>>> size, and regarding the new size limit of a /20 of their current holdings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That said, in the interests of moving forward I support the AC
>>>> recommendation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *Robert
>>>> Clarke
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 06, 2019 9:27 PM
>>>> *To:* William Herrin <bill at herrin.us>
>>>> *Cc:* ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Looking for final show of support on
>>>> revised Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with William. It's definitely not logical to hand out free
>>>> addresses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert Clarke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 6, 2019, at 6:21 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Support, though frankly I'd prefer it if ARIN simply abolished the wait
>>>> list and put the addresses on the transfer market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Philosophically speaking, how could you possibly *need* addresses the
>>>> way we think of need if you can afford to wait months and months for them
>>>> to become available on the wait list? Seems to me like there's some fudging
>>>> going on at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill Herrin
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ===============================================
>>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>>> Office of Information Technology
>>> University of Minnesota
>>> 2218 University Ave SE
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>       Phone: 612-626-0815
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
>>> ===============================================
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g>
>       Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
> ===============================================
>
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