<div><br></div><div dir="auto">Not selling or idling is a market norm. Even if because of inconvenience or laziness. Markets fix that on their own. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">On revoked resources? Its a good question. Abandoned things are frequently auctioned. As long as “profit” translated to member benefits such as fee reductions, all good here. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Getting rid of the waiting list isn't dependent on resolving that IMHO. Good idea, Bill Herrin. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 15:29 David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">The problem is not everyone wants to sell them, many people don't want to deal with the hassle, they just want to return the addresses. Also, are you suggesting that ARIN should just let resources remain in the registry if people don't pay their bill? Please explain how the market will figure out people that don't want to participate, people that don't pay their bills, or people that commit fraud against the registry? The market can do a lot, but I don't think it can deal with those issues.</div><div><br></div>Thanks</div><div dir="ltr"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 2:16 PM Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com" target="_blank">hannigan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">ARIN doesn't have to profit. Kill the list and concept. Let the market sort it out. Don't accept returns at all. “Policy” aside, it is that simple. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 14:56 David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Those of you who support Elimination of the Waiting List, effectively Draft Policy ARIN-2019-7 should read the Staff and Legal Review for the policy posted on April 29th.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_7/" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_7/</a></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>In particular the Legal Assessment;</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>This policy requires legal comment. ARIN’s Articles and Bylaws do not specifically prohibit ARIN from monetizing returned or revoked resources by selling those resources into the transfer market, as an alternative to allocating some amended version of the wait list policy. Fraud underlying any waiting list policy issuance is an appropriate policy concern. However, ARIN revokes address resources from those who fail to make required payment s to ARIN which makes up almost all revocations; and in the rare cases of breach of the RSA or fraud in the obtaining the allocation. Today, ARIN does not financially benefit in any material way from such revocations. Adoption of this policy would for the first time allow the party in a contested revocation situation to argue that ARIN seeks to financially benefit. Avoiding that concern is also significant.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Based on this assessment, I find it difficult to support this course of action or this policy.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:41 AM Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_-3308371233990216544gmail-m_-420629838974460397m_6882564004818443889gmail-m_4105536709847417649WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Robert and Bill that it is an illogical market distortion to have this source of free addresses.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">And that the assumption that “need” at an earlier point in time is still the same “need” when addresses randomly come available in the future is faulty.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I would prefer to starve the waiting list to death, but apparently it continues to be fed by various inputs.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">(I think recovered addresses should be returned to IANA or added to another reserve pool at ARIN instead of adding them to waiting list inventory.) <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I don’t support the selling of addresses by ARIN.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I think the 5 year waiting period is 4 years too long.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I think the recent recovery of fraudulently allocated space means that those already on the waiting list should be grandfathered-in regarding size, and regarding the new size limit of a /20 of their current holdings.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">That said, in the interests of moving forward I support the AC recommendation.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Clarke<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 06, 2019 9:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank">bill@herrin.us</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Looking for final show of support on revised Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I agree with William. It's definitely not logical to hand out free addresses.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black">Robert Clarke<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 6, 2019, at 6:21 PM, William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank">bill@herrin.us</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Support, though frankly I'd prefer it if ARIN simply abolished the wait list and put the addresses on the transfer market. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Philosophically speaking, how could you possibly *need* addresses the way we think of need if you can afford to wait months and months for them to become available on the wait list? Seems to me like there's some fudging going on at this point.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Bill Herrin</p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div> </div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_-3308371233990216544gmail-m_-420629838974460397m_6882564004818443889gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">2218 University Ave SE</a> Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
ARIN-PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_-3308371233990216544gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g">2218 University Ave SE</a> Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>