[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-12: Require New POC Validation Upon Reassignment
Owen DeLong
owen at delong.com
Thu Nov 30 13:36:28 EST 2017
> On Nov 29, 2017, at 22:08 , Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
>
>
> And I will point out that the entire point of validating POCs is to discover things like /16's that haven't been used for 15 years.
I’m not convinced this is true.
I think the entire point of validating POCs is to make sure that all resources have valid POCs.
I think that if the entire point were discovering /16s that haven’t been used for 15 years, then POC validation would be tied
to some process for liberating those resources for reissue.
Owen
>
> It would seem to me that ARIN staff vacillates between loving and hating section 3.6 of the NRPM. Some years they see any attempt at
> housecleaning stale assignments that are just on autopilot (like this
> mythical /16 - I love how when people cite these examples they never
> state the actual numbers - hello!) as an obstacle to increased IPv6
> adoption so they hate it and undercut it. Other years they desperately
> need to get some IPv4 for someone very big and powerful with maybe a
> whole lot of guns and rocket launchers and such and they love this
> section since it allows them to scrape together some IPv4 for a need.
>
> Ted
>
> On 11/27/2017 4:24 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> Before we travel too far down this branch of discussion, I’d like to
>> point out that fees are not within the realm of ARIN policy debate and
>> therefore aren’t really an appropriate topic for this list.
>>
>> If you’d like to discuss such a fee, there is arin-discuss (open to
>> Members/Staff/Board/AC) where fee discussions are appropriate.
>>
>> Alternatively, there is also the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion
>> Process (ACSP) available via the Participate tab on the ARIN web site.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 13:08 , Steven Ryerse
>>> <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com <mailto:SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don’t see how you can go back and start charging Legacy holders that
>>> obtained their blocks before ARIN was created. You would have to
>>> charge big companies like AT&T & IBM and you would have to somehow
>>> charge the Dept. of Defense and so forth to make it fair to everyone.
>>> Seems like that ship sailed long ago.
>>> /Steven Ryerse/
>>> /President/
>>> /100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338/
>>> /770.656.1460 - Cell/
>>> /770.399.9099 - Office/
>>> /770.392.0076 - Fax/
>>> <image001.jpg>℠Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>>> ^Conquering Complex Networks ^℠ ^
>>> *From:*ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]*On Behalf
>>> Of*Roberts, Orin
>>> *Sent:*Monday, November 27, 2017 3:59 PM
>>> *To:*Andrew Bagrin <abagrin at omninet.io <mailto:abagrin at omninet.io>>
>>> *Cc:*ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-12: Require New POC
>>> Validation Upon Reassignment
>>> I see obstacles but increased fees would lead to greater efficiency in
>>> IPv4 assignments and usage or at the very least aid in the migration
>>> to IPv6.
>>>
>>> 1. Charging a monthly fee (or higher monthly fee), means increased
>>> costs to end-users for whatever services said company provides.
>>> 2. ISP’s with VERY LARGE inventory of IPs would lobby against such a
>>> proposal. A typical ISP would have several /16’s in reservation -
>>> capacity planning.
>>> 3. What’s to stop companies from doing what they do now? – Reassign
>>> or Reallocate unused inventory (ie trade and monetize via brokers).
>>>
>>> Orin Roberts
>>> *From:*ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]*On Behalf
>>> Of*Andrew Bagrin
>>> *Sent:*November-27-17 3:35 PM
>>> *To:*Austin Murkland <austin.murkland at qscend.com
>>> <mailto:austin.murkland at qscend.com>>; Andre Dalle <adalle at ncf.ca
>>> <mailto:adalle at ncf.ca>>
>>> *Cc:*ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-12: Require New POC
>>> Validation Upon Reassignment
>>> I’d also like to see a $100 monthly fee per IPv4 /24 currently assigned.
>>> I held onto a /16 at a previous company, just because it was cool but
>>> had no use for it. I checked recently and it is still assigned to the
>>> same company and not being used 15 years later.
>>> By adding a $25k monthly fee, they would quickly return the block.
>>> Currently we have to pay brokers or sellers to acquire more IPv4
>>> space. I would rather pay ARIN which could go to better funding the
>>> organization.
>>> *From:*ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>>> <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>]*On Behalf Of*Austin Murkland
>>> *Sent:*Monday, November 27, 2017 3:26 PM
>>> *To:*Andre Dalle <adalle at ncf.ca <mailto:adalle at ncf.ca>>
>>> *Cc:*ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-12: Require New POC
>>> Validation Upon Reassignment
>>> Also support this
>>> On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Andre Dalle <adalle at ncf.ca
>>> <mailto:adalle at ncf.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> All my IPv4 space is reassigned, and I discovered last year that
>>> not all of it - from the same carrier - is properly associated
>>> with us.
>>>
>>> Upstream created a POC for us (even though we were an existing
>>> customer with multiple reassignments), and it's been sluggish
>>> getting them to
>>> sort it out. We have rDNS, so most abuse reporting still finds us,
>>> but some abuse mechanisms out there rely on POC info.
>>>
>>> So I think this is necessary. +100 from here as well.
>>>
>>> ----
>>> André Dalle
>>> Systems Administrator
>>> National Capital FreeNet [http://www.ncf.ca <http://www.ncf.ca/>]
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Provo" <ppml at rsuc.gweep.net <mailto:ppml at rsuc.gweep.net>>
>>> To: "ARIN-PPML List" <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 22 November, 2017 11:01:59
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-12: Require New
>>> POC Validation Upon Reassignment
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 06:13:46PM -0500, David Huberman wrote:
>>> > Thank you Scott. As the co-author, I very much recognize this
>>> > proposal text is a ???first draft???. Working with my co-author
>>> > Jason Schiller, and having solicited feedback from the AC, this
>>> > proposal was submitted to solve the general problem. My hope was
>>> > the mechanics would be looked at critically by the community during
>>> > the PDP, and we would work together to improve them.
>>>
>>> With my personal hat on I'm very happy to see this getting
>>> to discussion. +100 for intent and I look forward to useful
>>> language suggestions here.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Posted from my personal account - see X-Disclaimer header.
>>> Joe Provo / Gweep / Earthling
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>>
>>
>>
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