[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements between IPv4 and IPv6

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Wed Jul 26 15:20:43 EDT 2017


I believe that both the existing and proposed policies handle the CPNI issues sufficiently through the
ARIN requirement that providers require similar reassignment terms from their assignees and other recipients.

Otherwise, yes, I think we are in agreement about the policy.

Owen

> On Jul 26, 2017, at 02:11 , Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Owen
> I think we are really almost in total agreement! :-)
> I think we use words a little differently, but It think
> we want a similar result. "Address Tracking" was not
> on my concerns list except for possible CPNI violations
> which I see a solution of how to handle this.
> Take care
> Paul
> 
> On 7/26/2017 1:13 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 15:46, Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Let me change "geolocation" to "address tracking".
>>> For instance, Netflix blocks a certain region and whois is showing customer
>>> in that region, whereas the customer is actually in a non-blocked region.
>>> If I had my own IPv4 /24 or above I don't have any issue making this entry correct to ARIN.
>> 
>> I know for a fact that Netflix bases very little (if any) of their geo-fencing on Whois data. 
>> 
>>> But I have a /25 block from a datacenter that shows I am in California.
>>> Their SWIP policy on IPv4 is /24 to SWIP.
>>> We are trying to minimize these issues as we deploy IPv6 when we have direct allocation.
>>> I am not debating the "address tracking" issue just brought it up because I think John made a comment about it.
>> 
>> I think if you review the record I stated early on that I didn't believe geolocation was a practical use of Whois. 
>> 
>>> We see ebay, amazon, craig's list all using whois information.
>> 
>> Really? Source needed. 
>> 
>> In my experience they use other geolocation providers. 
>> 
>>> Also our /25's have been blocked at the /24 and /18 level.
>>> We had /24's blocked that are reallocated at the parent /18 level.
>>> So unless there is some way to enforce, it just seems to be words on paper.
>> 
>> Enforce what? Geolocation is a truly black art and there is no central clearing house or community driven policy body driving its practitioners. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> CHANGE of subject not topic
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> What I had wished to do on IPv6 deployment is assign an IPv6 /48 to each Tower(WISP), each POP(ISP)
>>> I would want that switched as will as any individually announced block smaller than that.
>>> Haven't decided but have a separate /48 to handle DNS, mail servers, etc. ie Our Infrastructure
>>> Anything less specific that a /48 would just add noise to the world and would be somewhat proprietary.
>>> I give away some info just advertising my POP's/Towers but I think that would be for the collective good. :-)
>>> The world doesn't need to know my Access Points or neighborhood routers, etc.
>> 
>> I see no reason you can't accomplish this under the proposed policy. I support the current draft as previously stated. 
>> 
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>>>  
>>> I think I need to get off my soapbox and take a nap now!
>>> I know I ramble a lot, but getting too old to change much! :-)
>>> Thanks
>>> Take care
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On 7/25/2017 5:17 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
>>>> If I, as an End User network, want to inform geolocation providers of where I'm using each netblock, having them assigned to me in the whois DB with an appropriate address is one of the best ways to do that.  But if I'm running a geolocation service, I can't rely on whois as the sole source of data on where an address is used.  If I have other info that contradicts the whois information, I'd probably just ignore the whois data and go with the facts on the ground.
>>>> 
>>>> -Scott
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>>>> Owen
>>>> Several weeks ago geolocation was one of the arguments for having accurate whois in this thread.
>>>> This is no longer being argued?
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/25/2017 4:26 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>> Huh?
>>>> 
>>>> WHOIS is not a geolocation service and anyone who thinks it is should reduce their use of recreational pharmaceuticals.
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 12:03 , Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Then that totally negates the reasoning for geolocation.
>>>> The administrative address could be on the other side of the earth.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/24/2017 1:31 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 14:28 , hostmaster at uneedus.com <mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My transit bus example is another example of SWIP difficulty.  Very hard to provide a street address to SWIP a bus when it is mobile 16 hours a day.
>>>> Not at all. A bus would be SWIPd to the bus yard or administrative offices of the bus company. The SWIP data is not required to be the service address, it is required                               to be an address for administrative and/or technical contact regarding the network and/or legal process service regarding same.
>>>> 
>>>> [rest trimmed because we are in agreement on that part]
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017, Chris James wrote:
>>>> @Paul - The API key is to email it.
>>>> 
>>>> @Owen - Very difficult when you have dynamic ranges, and vps/container
>>>> platforms spanning tens of thousands of instances across these dynamic
>>>> ranges.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net <mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>> The reassignment policy page says IPv6 has to be done vi API.
>>>> Is that something else that is incorrect on the web site?
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/20/2017 3:16 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> How can it be overly difficult to fill out an email template with your
>>>> customers’
>>>> Name, Address, Phone Number?
>>>> 
>>>> Really?
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 19, 2017, at 23:48 , Pallieter Koopmans <Pallieter at pallieter.org <mailto:Pallieter at pallieter.org>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> ARIN could quantify and require rules for when to SWIP, but in the
>>>> end, there are going to be exceptions needed if the rules are to be
>>>> strictly followed. Many will not separately SWIP a separately routed
>>>> sub-block if it is too difficult or pointless to gather and share that
>>>> data back upstream to ARIN.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus a more fuzzy rule to require a best-effort and to add a
>>>> rule-based reason (preferably both a carrot and a stick) for block
>>>> owners to do their best to provide (only) useful data. In order to do
>>>> that, one needs to look back at why that data is needed. For a block
>>>> owner to assign the SWIP on a sub-block, he basically delegates tech
>>>> and abuse contact requests down to those that are probably more likely
>>>> to be able to actually act on the tech/abuse requests (and thus reduce
>>>> request-handling workload higher up and overall). But for that to
>>>> work, those tech/abuse contact requests need to be actually handled,
>>>> otherwise, it is better to leave them with the block owner.
>>>> 
>>>> In the end, the contact details should be as close to the "person"
>>>> that is actually capable to both handle (think: volume/languages/etc)
>>>> and act (think: authority) on the tech/abuse requests.
>>>> 
>>>> eBrain
>>>> Innovative Internet Ideas
>>>> 
>>>> Pallieter Koopmans
>>>> Managing Director
>>>> 
>>>> +31-6-3400-3800 <tel:%2B31-6-3400-3800> (mon-sat 9-22 CET)
>>>> Skype: PallieterKoopmans
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>>> 
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