[arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2

[Adam Thompson]

John, you've used language to obfuscate David's point, which is that ARIN does not *allow* *transfers* of IP address space between entities.
ARIN does set out policies that participating members must abide by, but since a) we have evidence that transfer market participants exist who basically ignore ARIN entirely, b) these participants do engage in meaningful transfer of IP resources, and c) ARIN has (AFAIK) no legal mandate to pursue these non-participating transferring entities, then ARIN cannot logically claim to be allowing or denying transfers.
ARIN does choose to allow or disallow transfers to happen inside its policy framework, but that's not the same thing as allowing or denying the substantive transfer in the first place.
AFAICT, IANAL.
-Adam

On June 1, 2015 6:48:27 PM CDT, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>On Jun 1, 2015, at 7:30 PM, David Conrad <drc at virtualized.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I'll ask again (since you conveniently ignored the question):
>> 
>>>> Historically, the point of the registry database was to facilitate
>management
>>>> of the network, e.g., a place you could look up registration
>information
>>>> when you wanted to contact the entity associated with the source
>address.
>>>> In the post IPv4 free pool world, what's the point of the American
>_Registry_
>>>> for Internet Numbers again?
>> 
>> In your earlier message, you appear to be asserting that abiding by
>ARIN policies is a requirement for a 'transfer' to occur.  This strikes
>me as a very dangerous (not to mention hubristic) assumption. 
>Transfers will and do occur, regardless of ARIN policies. The only
>thing ARIN can do is choose to acknowledge or ignore those transfers.
>Failure to acknowledge transfers is detrimental to the accuracy of the
>registry. I strongly believe the purpose of the registry system is to
>act as a registry to accurately reflect the correct attribution of use
>of address space. If ARIN is not going to perform this function, can
>you suggest some entity that will?
>
>David -
>
>Your confusion is likely over what represents “correct attribution” -
>if ARIN does not
>operate the registry according to the policies set by those who use it,
>then there is
>no doubt that the contents are not correct.   If ARIN operates the
>registry as set by
>the community, and some in the community wish to transfer contrary to
>the existing
>policies, then ARIN is obligated to not allow a transfer since we serve
>the registry
>   community.
>
>One can argue that the ARIN community shouldn’t have policies that
>inhibit transfers
>(I’ll refrain from participating in that, since I serve the community,
>not develop policy)
>but I don’t think you’re actually advocating that ARIN ignore community
>policy in the
>operation of the registry?   Could you please clarify if that is what
>you are suggesting?
>
>Thanks!
>/John
>
>John Curran
>President and CEO
>ARIN
>
>
>
>
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