[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

Elvis Velea elvis at velea.eu
Wed Jun 4 22:24:28 EDT 2014


Hi John,

On 05/06/14 04:05, John Von Stein wrote:
>
> Elvis,
>
> So does that mean a US based ISP such as QxC wanted / needed an 
> additional IPv4 allocation we could simply go to RIPE and get the IPv4 
> we want/need?
>

yup :) and only for EUR1600/year and with no transfer fees :)

cheers,
elvis
>
> Thank you,
>
> John W. Von Stein
>
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>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] 
> On Behalf Of Elvis Velea
> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:35 PM
> To: David Huberman
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
> Hi David,
>
> even further... for those that do not know yet, any legal or private 
> person can become a member of the RIPE NCC while the ARIN 
> policies/procedures still require a company to have a legal presence 
> in the ARIN region in order to request resources.
>
> And, btw.. have I already mentioned that the RIPE Community has 
> completely removed the demonstrated need from their policy? I think I 
> was only discussing this matter in the APNIC mailing lists and maybe 
> those subscribed to this mailing list should also be aware of.
>
> cheers,
>
> elvis
>
> On 05/06/14 03:30, David Huberman wrote:
>
> > I agree completely, Elvis.  There's an argument to be made that if 
> ARIN won't be flexible with transfer policy, that RIPE becomes the 
> most useful RIR for operators to work within.  There's a further 
> argument that's been made that the time for regional IRs may be passed 
> (past?) and that IETF should review the situation.
>
> >
>
> > David R Huberman
>
> > Microsoft Corporation
>
> > Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________________
>
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> 
> <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> on
>
> > behalf of Elvis Velea <elvis at velea.eu <mailto:elvis at velea.eu>>
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:21:52 PM
>
> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
> >
>
> > Hi David,
>
> >
>
> > On 05/06/14 02:21, David Huberman wrote:
>
> >> We're going to be a cross-roads very soon.  ARIN is going to 
> exhaust, and network operators will be unable to obtain additional 
> IPv4 address blocks from ARIN.  At that point, the most obvious 
> solution for IPv4 needs will be the market.
>
> > And then, they will be able to register as RIPE NCC members (LIRs) and
>
> > receive as many IP addresses as they want without having to prove any
>
> > demonstrated need. All they will need to do is to confirm that they
>
> > will use these addresses for themselves or their customers.
>
> >
>
> >>    Proper stewardship of the ARIN function demands that ARIN policy 
> adjust to what happens in the market.  It's not the other way around, 
> if only because that's not how markets work.
>
> >>
>
> >> The ARIN CEO, ARIN's General Counsel, the Harvard economist ARIN 
> pays, professors who study markets, brokers who operate in the market, 
> and buyers and sellers who buy and sell in the market have all told 
> the ARIN community the same story for around 5 years now: the market 
> is going to act as a market, and ARIN policy needs to be ready for it; 
> ARIN policy needs to make sense with the dynamics of the market.
>
> >>
>
> >> It's hard to know how to argue with operators like Owen and the
>
> >> Google folks who all say the opposite; that ARIN policy should stick
>
> >> to the same ideals as 1995 (important ideals for a very long time!)
>
> >> and not adjust.  I fear the results of this kind of ostracism :(
>
> > Well, then let them slowly kill the ARIN function. If all ARIN members
>
> > can no longer get resources and they stop paying and go to the
>
> > cheapest RIR (which btw is RIPE NCC with EUR1600/year no matter how
>
> > many resources one has) and get as many resources they want... what do
>
> > you think will happen?
>
> >
>
> > cheers,
>
> > elvis
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
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>
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