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Hi John,<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/06/14 04:05, John Von Stein
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoPlainText">Elvis, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">So does that mean a US based ISP such as
QxC wanted / needed an additional IPv4 allocation we could
simply go to RIPE and get the IPv4 we want/need?
</p>
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<br>
yup :) and only for €1600/year and with no transfer fees :)<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
elvis<br>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">John W. Von
Stein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="color:#1F497D">102 NE 2<sup>nd</sup> Street<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="color:#1F497D">Suite 136<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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33432<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Office:
561-288-6989<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
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href="http://www.qxccommunications.com/"><span
style="color:blue">www.QxCcommunications.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Elvis Velea<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:35 PM<br>
To: David Huberman<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hi David,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">even further... for those that do not
know yet, any legal or private person can become a member of
the RIPE NCC while the ARIN policies/procedures still require
a company to have a legal presence in the ARIN region in order
to request resources.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">And, btw.. have I already mentioned that
the RIPE Community has completely removed the demonstrated
need from their policy? I think I was only discussing this
matter in the APNIC mailing lists and maybe those subscribed
to this mailing list should also be aware of.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">elvis<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On 05/06/14 03:30, David Huberman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I agree completely, Elvis. There's
an argument to be made that if ARIN won't be flexible with
transfer policy, that RIPE becomes the most useful RIR for
operators to work within. There's a further argument that's
been made that the time for regional IRs may be passed (past?)
and that IETF should review the situation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> David R Huberman<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Microsoft Corporation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>
________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>>
on <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> behalf of Elvis Velea <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:elvis@velea.eu"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">elvis@velea.eu</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014
6:21:52 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About
needs basis in 8.3 transfers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Hi David,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> On 05/06/14 02:21, David Huberman
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> We're going to be a cross-roads
very soon. ARIN is going to exhaust, and network operators
will be unable to obtain additional IPv4 address blocks from
ARIN. At that point, the most obvious solution for IPv4 needs
will be the market.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> And then, they will be able to
register as RIPE NCC members (LIRs) and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> receive as many IP addresses as
they want without having to prove any
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> demonstrated need. All they will
need to do is to confirm that they
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> will use these addresses for
themselves or their customers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> Proper stewardship of the
ARIN function demands that ARIN policy adjust to what happens
in the market. It's not the other way around, if only because
that's not how markets work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> The ARIN CEO, ARIN's General
Counsel, the Harvard economist ARIN pays, professors who study
markets, brokers who operate in the market, and buyers and
sellers who buy and sell in the market have all told the ARIN
community the same story for around 5 years now: the market is
going to act as a market, and ARIN policy needs to be ready
for it; ARIN policy needs to make sense with the dynamics of
the market.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> It's hard to know how to argue
with operators like Owen and the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> Google folks who all say the
opposite; that ARIN policy should stick
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> to the same ideals as 1995
(important ideals for a very long time!)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>> and not adjust. I fear the
results of this kind of ostracism :(<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Well, then let them slowly kill the
ARIN function. If all ARIN members
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> can no longer get resources and
they stop paying and go to the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cheapest RIR (which btw is RIPE NCC
with EUR1600/year no matter how
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> many resources one has) and get as
many resources they want... what do
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> you think will happen?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> elvis<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> PPML<o:p></o:p></p>
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