[arin-ppml] Regarding unauthorized changes (Re: Policy question)

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Jeff and George,

   George without knowing the full story, your wasting a lot of time
responding to him.

   Jeff, bankruptcies and court proceedings are PUBLIC at least in
the United States.  It is completely legal for you to post everything
and anything dealing with your problem on a public website.  If you
type up a long explanation of "your side" and your perceived wrongs,
and post it, then include the URL in your posts castigating ARIN, I
would have a lot more respect for you and your problem.

   But this business of throwing stones at John Curran and ARIN then
simply hinting what the problem is, is a big heaping pile of bullpucky.
If you persist in this, I will assume that your opponent is right
and you are wrong, end of story.  And I hope the rest of ARIN does,
end of story!!!!

Ted

On 9/20/2012 1:53 PM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
> I was merely answering the OPs question. Naturally, ARIN management
> became defensive with the dirty laundry partially aired
>
> Thanks, Jeff
>
> On Sep 20, 2012 4:34 PM, "George Herbert" <george.herbert at gmail.com
> <mailto:george.herbert at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Jeffrey -
>
>     With all due respect; 3 issues.
>
>     1, This is not appropriate on-list.
>
>     2, Presumably, ARIN received evidence that the change was proper prior
>     to making it.  That evidence could have been wrong, forged,
>     fraudulent.  But a random person on the net asserting that a change is
>     wrong, forged, or fraudulent does not mean that it is wrong, forged,
>     or fraudulent.  If the process is that anyone can make an assertion
>     like that and the net is suspended, the possible damage is immense -
>     anyone could procedurally disrupt huge parts of the net by making
>     false claims of improper transfers.
>
>     You are not personally "random person on the net" and I assume you
>     haven't changed from an honorable networking professional to a malign
>     saboteur overnight, so I would guess you've got a good case here.  But
>     you're putting ARIN in the job of being a private detective and
>     judicial authority.  That's wrong.  They're a resources management
>     cooperative.  Them insisting that you convince a judge (who deals, by
>     profession, in wrongs, forgeries, and fraud) that something was wrong
>     with the other guy and it should be yours, is proper.
>
>     3, You said (I think) that you acquired these from a bankruptcy.  One
>     of the expected costs of acquiring assets that way is that sometimes
>     there are legal challenges.  If you aren't willing to deal with the
>     occasional legal challenge you should not procure assets that way.  If
>     your expectations were that that never happens, you were wrong in
>     those assumptions to start with, and need to reconsider your business
>     process.
>
>
>     -george
>
>     On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jeffrey Lyon
>     <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net <mailto:jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net>>
>     wrote:
>      > John,
>      >
>      > You did not become involved until after our records were
>     illegally changed,
>      > so you're regarding the wrong POC as owner of these resources. We
>     continue
>      > to route them, and the POC listed does not operate a network so
>     they cannot
>      > legally hold these resources.
>      >
>      > Thanks, Jeff
>      >
>      > On Sep 20, 2012 11:01 AM, "John Curran" <jcurran at arin.net
>     <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Jeffrey Lyon
>     <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net <mailto:jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net>>
>      >> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> John,
>      >>
>      >> The unauthorized change preceded the failure of ARIN to assist in
>      >> reverting the errorneous record. You're protecting the wrong party.
>      >>
>      >> Jeffrey -
>      >>
>      >>    We've made to resource records from the authorized
>     point-of-contact on
>      >> the address block
>      >>    each time.  Changes based  instead on interpretation of
>     contested legal
>      >> documents requires
>      >>    some form of legal adjudication first.
>      >>
>      >> Thank you,
>      >> /John
>      >>
>      >> John Curran
>      >> President and CEO
>      >> ARIN
>      >>
>      >>
>      >
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>
>
>     --
>     -george william herbert
>     george.herbert at gmail.com <mailto:george.herbert at gmail.com>
>
>
>
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