[arin-ppml] Regarding unauthorized changes (Re: Policy question)

[Jeffrey Lyon]

I was merely answering the OPs question. Naturally, ARIN management became
defensive with the dirty laundry partially aired

Thanks, Jeff
On Sep 20, 2012 4:34 PM, "George Herbert" <george.herbert at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jeffrey -
>
> With all due respect; 3 issues.
>
> 1, This is not appropriate on-list.
>
> 2, Presumably, ARIN received evidence that the change was proper prior
> to making it.  That evidence could have been wrong, forged,
> fraudulent.  But a random person on the net asserting that a change is
> wrong, forged, or fraudulent does not mean that it is wrong, forged,
> or fraudulent.  If the process is that anyone can make an assertion
> like that and the net is suspended, the possible damage is immense -
> anyone could procedurally disrupt huge parts of the net by making
> false claims of improper transfers.
>
> You are not personally "random person on the net" and I assume you
> haven't changed from an honorable networking professional to a malign
> saboteur overnight, so I would guess you've got a good case here.  But
> you're putting ARIN in the job of being a private detective and
> judicial authority.  That's wrong.  They're a resources management
> cooperative.  Them insisting that you convince a judge (who deals, by
> profession, in wrongs, forgeries, and fraud) that something was wrong
> with the other guy and it should be yours, is proper.
>
> 3, You said (I think) that you acquired these from a bankruptcy.  One
> of the expected costs of acquiring assets that way is that sometimes
> there are legal challenges.  If you aren't willing to deal with the
> occasional legal challenge you should not procure assets that way.  If
> your expectations were that that never happens, you were wrong in
> those assumptions to start with, and need to reconsider your business
> process.
>
>
> -george
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jeffrey Lyon
> <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net> wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > You did not become involved until after our records were illegally
> changed,
> > so you're regarding the wrong POC as owner of these resources. We
> continue
> > to route them, and the POC listed does not operate a network so they
> cannot
> > legally hold these resources.
> >
> > Thanks, Jeff
> >
> > On Sep 20, 2012 11:01 AM, "John Curran" <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Jeffrey Lyon <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> The unauthorized change preceded the failure of ARIN to assist in
> >> reverting the errorneous record. You're protecting the wrong party.
> >>
> >> Jeffrey -
> >>
> >>    We've made to resource records from the authorized point-of-contact
> on
> >> the address block
> >>    each time.  Changes based  instead on interpretation of contested
> legal
> >> documents requires
> >>    some form of legal adjudication first.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >> /John
> >>
> >> John Curran
> >> President and CEO
> >> ARIN
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PPML
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>
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herbert at gmail.com
>
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