[arin-ppml] Use of the specified transfer policy (was: "Leasing" of space via non-connectivity providers)

[Martin Hannigan]

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:53 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:23 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
>> Both. 8.3 requires the use of the STLS. They are effectively one.
>
> NRPM 8.3 is a policy, and ARIN will process specified transfer
> requests from two parties which appear and meet the criteria.
> Neither of them has to be a participant in the Specified Transfer
> Listing Service (STLS); the STLS is simply a convenience for those
> parties who want some help finding a match.  Think of it this way:
> STLS is a dating service, which you don't need to use if you already
> have a partner and just want to go (via NRPM 8.3) and get married.
>
>> Members do not want those(Illegitimate) people to benefit. But there
>> are likely other more efficient ways to deal with this problem and
>> allow legitimate holders to conduct private transactions with limited
>> difficulty and _limited expense_.
>
> ARIN does charge $250 one-time to process transfers, per the fee
> schedule here <https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html>
>
>> Signing the LRSA is significantly risky IMHO. I found many
>> requirements that if I were holding legacy resources I would find non
>> conducive to a mutually beneficial relationship with the ARIN
>> community especially since there's no incentive to do so now:
>>
>> - no mutual termination
>> - termination only for cause
>> - no membership benefits
>> - fees
>> - less rights that members e.g. audits, etc.
>> - Subject to current and future policies without recourse
>
> You might want to reread the LRSA as well.  The LRSA does contain
> a nominal annual fee ($100) but also explicitly takes precedence over
> any policy changes and requires ARIN to provide registry services
> (whois, reverse) for the resources, even those which are unused.


"Reread the LRSA" is a blanket statement. Can you specify what I'm
inaccurate about? If it's just fees, thanks. If not, I'd appreciate
further explanation.

>
>> Without carrot, we'll see limited use of the 8.3 required transfer
>> mechanisms. I would suggest the carrots would be:
>>
>> -no fees
>> -mutual termination
>> -membership
>
> While the present terms are actually quite favorable, it's always

We disagree.

> worth revisiting if the community wishes.  There is a parity issue,
> in that most of the community is paying significant more for these
> same services today, and equitable sharing of the registry costs is
> viewed by many as expected.

That we agree on, but the benefit of having a vibrant transfer market
may be deemed by the members to outweigh the need for extended fees.

My estimates show that the cost of a /24 for a small member would be
more than doubled after fees and expenses as a result of the non
policy part of transfer and the LRSA are passed through. Does ARIN
have any estimates as to what a transfer will really cost all of us?

 [ clip ]

Best,

-M<