[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment

[Marshall Eubanks]

There appear to be no autonomous systems based in those locations.

Regards
Marshall

On Oct 10, 2008, at 1:24 PM, David Williamson wrote:

> I agree with Bill on this one.  Let's not punish the Caribbean folks
> with a 6-month delay because we forgot to include 10,000 people
> scattered across a few tiny islands.  I'd still like to see a simple
> list defining the "Caribbean region" appended to the existing  
> proposal,
> but I wouldn't want to hold up adoption of this otherwise very worthy
> proposal.
>
> Out of curiosity, can someone from the ARIN staff tell us if we've  
> ever
> had *any* requests from St. Pierre and Miquelon or St. Helena?  (Since
> those are the only inhabited locations that aren't "Caribbean" or
> US/Canada....)  I suspect this is really a complete non-issue.  I  
> would
> just prefer that we remove ambiguity so future interpretation isn't
> different from current intent.
>
> -David
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 12:20:04PM -0500, Bill Darte wrote:
>> Personally, I have no problem with your conclusion that a more
>> generalized proposal should emerge.
>>
>> Given that, the central issue is that the proposal should change  
>> scope.
>> And, it has two possible solutions in time.
>> 1. We can support the existing proposal and have two successful  
>> examples
>> (hopefully), that being the African community support and then the
>> Caribbean....and then introduce another more generalized proposal.
>> Or 2. we can abandon the existing proposal because it is not general
>> enough and propose the more general.
>>
>> I see little service in later, compared to the former.
>>
>> Bill Darte
>> ARIN AC
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Farmer
>>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:40 AM
>>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment
>>>
>>> On 10 Oct 2008 Bill Darte wrote:
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> ARIN did not initiate the proposed change for the Caribbean sector.
>>>>
>>>> My first experience with issues surrounding this proposal was in a
>>>> pre-sector meeting in St. Thomas February of '07.
>>>>
>>>> There, many representatives of the Caribbean community voiced a
>>>> variety of concerns related to limited infrastructure, lack of
>>>> competition  due to powerful and protected imcumbency, etc.  They
>>>> learned much about ARIN and learned more during the whole region
>>>> meeting in Puerto Rico the following Spring at ARIN XIX.
>>>>
>>>> Cathy and Paul may correct me, but I believe the impetus for the
>>>> actual writing of the proposal came during Open Policy Hour at ARIN
>>>> XXI in Denver.  There, Bernadette Lewis, Secretary General of the
>>>> Caribbean Telecommunications Union spoke about the need for
>>> change and
>>>> support with addressing policy.
>>>>
>>>> Cathy and Paul responded by crafting a draft proposal very shortly
>>>> thereafter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I remember I was there and I raised the very issue I'm
>>> raising now.
>>> Why exclude the other small stuff by defining this with a
>>> scope limited to the Caribbean.  I even went back a review
>>> the Quicktime of the Open Policy Hour from Denver, because I
>>> honestly couldn't remember if I only thought about raising
>>> the issue or if I actually did.
>>>
>>> I'm going to have to stick with the courage of my convictions
>>> on this one, I simply cannot support this policy if it is
>>> limited to the Caribbean.  It has to include all of the
>>> smaller economies in the ARIN Region.  In my view the valid
>>> issue here is that the smaller economies simply can't meet
>>> ARIN's current requirements, which are mostly based on what
>>> is workable for the US and Canada, but that issue doesn't
>>> have a Caribbean box around it.
>>>
>>> I also, think it is completely wrong for ARIN to lower the
>>> standards for the US and Canada, it mostly works here.  To
>>> that end, I'm going the completely withdraw the idea that the
>>> Arctic regions of the US and Canada are even part, or could
>>> even be part of this issue.  The economies of US and Canada
>>> are large enough to solve Arctic regions on their own.
>>>
>>> This discussion and reviewing the Open Policy Hour Quicktime
>>> from Denver, has help me to come to the conclusion that the
>>> proper scope of this issues and maybe even the proper title
>>> is "Small Economies within the ARIN Region"
>>>
>>> The issue here isn't a geographical region, "it's the
>>> economy, stupid." (it never cease to amaze me how many places
>>> that is a valid quote for :)) By scooping it by economy, we
>>> deal with population, infrastructure, and remoteness, etc...
>>> as they all play a role in an economy.
>>>
>>> I'll grant that primary effect of this policy will be in the
>>> Caribbean, they are probably the "Small Economies" that are
>>> even big enough and advanced enough to actually have the
>>> issue currently, but that doesn't make it right to exclude
>>> the other "Small Economies" from this policy.
>>>
>>> So, I support this important policy, iff (if an only if) it
>>> includes all the smaller economies in the ARIN Region.
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> David Farmer				     Email:	farmer at umn.edu
>>> Office of Information Technology
>>> Networking & Telecomunication Services
>>> University of Minnesota			     Phone:	
>>> 612-626-0815
>>> 2218 University Ave SE			     Cell:	
>>> 	612-812-9952
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029		     FAX:	612-626-1818
>>> =======================================================
>>>
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