[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment

[David Williamson]

I agree with Bill on this one.  Let's not punish the Caribbean folks
with a 6-month delay because we forgot to include 10,000 people
scattered across a few tiny islands.  I'd still like to see a simple
list defining the "Caribbean region" appended to the existing proposal,
but I wouldn't want to hold up adoption of this otherwise very worthy
proposal.

Out of curiosity, can someone from the ARIN staff tell us if we've ever
had *any* requests from St. Pierre and Miquelon or St. Helena?  (Since
those are the only inhabited locations that aren't "Caribbean" or
US/Canada....)  I suspect this is really a complete non-issue.  I would
just prefer that we remove ambiguity so future interpretation isn't
different from current intent.

-David

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 12:20:04PM -0500, Bill Darte wrote:
> Personally, I have no problem with your conclusion that a more
> generalized proposal should emerge.
> 
> Given that, the central issue is that the proposal should change scope.
> And, it has two possible solutions in time.
> 1. We can support the existing proposal and have two successful examples
> (hopefully), that being the African community support and then the
> Caribbean....and then introduce another more generalized proposal.
> Or 2. we can abandon the existing proposal because it is not general
> enough and propose the more general.
> 
> I see little service in later, compared to the former.
> 
> Bill Darte
> ARIN AC
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net 
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Farmer
> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:40 AM
> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-4 - Staff Assessment
> > 
> > On 10 Oct 2008 Bill Darte wrote:
> > 
> > > David,
> > > 
> > > ARIN did not initiate the proposed change for the Caribbean sector.
> > >
> > > My first experience with issues surrounding this proposal was in a 
> > > pre-sector meeting in St. Thomas February of '07.
> > > 
> > > There, many representatives of the Caribbean community voiced a 
> > > variety of concerns related to limited infrastructure, lack of 
> > > competition  due to powerful and protected imcumbency, etc.  They 
> > > learned much about ARIN and learned more during the whole region 
> > > meeting in Puerto Rico the following Spring at ARIN XIX.
> > > 
> > > Cathy and Paul may correct me, but I believe the impetus for the 
> > > actual writing of the proposal came during Open Policy Hour at ARIN 
> > > XXI in Denver.  There, Bernadette Lewis, Secretary General of the 
> > > Caribbean Telecommunications Union spoke about the need for 
> > change and 
> > > support with addressing policy.
> > >
> > > Cathy and Paul responded by crafting a draft proposal very shortly 
> > > thereafter.
> > >
> > 
> > Yes, I remember I was there and I raised the very issue I'm 
> > raising now.  
> > Why exclude the other small stuff by defining this with a 
> > scope limited to the Caribbean.  I even went back a review 
> > the Quicktime of the Open Policy Hour from Denver, because I 
> > honestly couldn't remember if I only thought about raising 
> > the issue or if I actually did. 
> > 
> > I'm going to have to stick with the courage of my convictions 
> > on this one, I simply cannot support this policy if it is 
> > limited to the Caribbean.  It has to include all of the 
> > smaller economies in the ARIN Region.  In my view the valid 
> > issue here is that the smaller economies simply can't meet 
> > ARIN's current requirements, which are mostly based on what 
> > is workable for the US and Canada, but that issue doesn't 
> > have a Caribbean box around it.
> > 
> > I also, think it is completely wrong for ARIN to lower the 
> > standards for the US and Canada, it mostly works here.  To 
> > that end, I'm going the completely withdraw the idea that the 
> > Arctic regions of the US and Canada are even part, or could 
> > even be part of this issue.  The economies of US and Canada 
> > are large enough to solve Arctic regions on their own.  
> > 
> > This discussion and reviewing the Open Policy Hour Quicktime 
> > from Denver, has help me to come to the conclusion that the 
> > proper scope of this issues and maybe even the proper title 
> > is "Small Economies within the ARIN Region"  
> > 
> > The issue here isn't a geographical region, "it's the 
> > economy, stupid." (it never cease to amaze me how many places 
> > that is a valid quote for :)) By scooping it by economy, we 
> > deal with population, infrastructure, and remoteness, etc... 
> > as they all play a role in an economy. 
> > 
> > I'll grant that primary effect of this policy will be in the 
> > Caribbean, they are probably the "Small Economies" that are 
> > even big enough and advanced enough to actually have the 
> > issue currently, but that doesn't make it right to exclude 
> > the other "Small Economies" from this policy.  
> > 
> > So, I support this important policy, iff (if an only if) it 
> > includes all the smaller economies in the ARIN Region.
> > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > David Farmer				     Email:	farmer at umn.edu
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