[ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame Server policy

Wed Sep 12 14:40:53 EDT 2007

In cases where a policy must apply uniformly, it has to be official
and not an internal staff guideline.

The big problem with taking this out of the NRPM is that unless
there's sanctions available to enforce correct DNS behavior, the
staff can't do anything because all the non-compliant network
operator has to do is say since it's not spelled out in the NRPM,
you can't do anything to me if I don't do it.

At this point I'm personally not sure any changes need to be made
at all.  But clearly the OP has a problem and the purpose of this
list and the policy process is essentially to present problems to
the community and see what the response is.

Thus I think your proposal is as needed as Johns.  If the membership
really doesen't want the RIR to bother with this, they will vote your
policy in.  If not, they will vote John's policy in (whenever it's
submitted)
So let's see what they want to do.

Ted
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:52 PM
  To: Ted Mittelstaedt
  Cc: John Von Essen; Public Policy Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame Server policy

  Ted,
  I believe you miss the point of my proposal. While I do believe that
  ARIN has a role to play in applying the clue bat to lame or partially lame
  ISPs and addressing John's issue, my point is that it belongs in
operational
  guidelines to ARIN staff and not in the NRPM.

  My proposal talks about what I think belongs in the NRPM and is
  not a direct expression of how I feel about what ARIN staff should or
  should not be doing with respect to this particular issue. I would fully
  support an ACSP recommendation that ARIN address all IN-ADDR
  lameness whether complete or not on any direct assignment. This will
  potentially require ARIN to examine as many as 255 zones in IPv4 for
  a single assignment.

  I would oppose any suggestion requiring ARIN to drill down
  to lame delegations made by the ISPs relating to reassignment or
  reallocations made by the ISP because of dramatically increasing
  workload for dramatically decreasing return on investment and
  because there is a limit to the extent to which I believe ARIN should
  engage in telling operators how to run their network (let alone their
  customers' networks).

  I will also oppose any policy regarding the operational and/or
  implementation details of lame delegations because I firmly believe
  this is not the role of the NRPM and should be addressed with
  operational procedures and recommendations rather than with
  number resource policies.

  Owen

  On Sep 11, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

    Yes John you are correct but the way things often work on this list is
someone like Owen will
    submit a policy to remove something that shouldn't obviously be removed,
the result of
    which will convert a bunch of fence sitters into proponents of keeping
it.
    The list membership needs Owens "just kill it" proposal precisely to
have something to
    vote down. A no vote commits the person voting no, to supporting the
policy.
    If Owens proposal is voted down, that will destroy all of the "it's not
the RIR's responsibility
    to enforce sanctions against bad nameserver operators" arguments, and we
can move the discussion
    to something productive of how to actually fix the problem.
    Your proposal might be premature - you might find it better to campaign
against Owens
    proposal first.
    Ted
      -----Original Message-----
      From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of
John Von Essen
      Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:55 PM
      To: Public Policy Mailing List
      Subject: Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame Server policy

      I do plan to submit my proposal. My final comment on all of this is
with regards to ARIN's stance on operational issues.

      I agree ARIN should be careful, but keep in mind ARIN does provide an
operational function of reverse DNS authority delegation. Because ARIN
engages in this very-real activity, policy must exist to cover its
implementation, design, and overall operational health.

      If ARIN just did AS numbers and IP allocation, and another
organization did reverse delegation, say Network Solutions, then YES - ARIN
should not get involved with operational issues of reverse DNS. But that
fact is ARIN does do reverse DNS delegation. When I do a dig on an IP, I see
alot of ARIN servers in the output!

      -John

      On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Azinger, Marla wrote:

        I would like to see a proposal that is along the lines of clarifying
in addition to Owens proposal to just take it away. Hopefully we havnt
scared John off and he will give a wack at it.

        Cheers!
        Marla

        -----Original Message-----
        From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf
Of
        William Herrin
        Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:32 PM
        To: Owen DeLong
        Cc: Public Policy Mailing List
        Subject: Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame Server policy

        On 9/11/07, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
          1. Policy Proposal Name: Deprecate Lame Server Policy
          7. Policy statement:
          Delete section 7 from the NRPM

        Owen,

        Are you sure this is the right way to move on this? If we're going
to
        call ISPs "Local Internet Registries," shouldn't we expect them to
        behave as internet registries and do the things that internet
        registries do, including reallocation and assignment of the RDNS
        attached to every IP address?

        Regards,
        Bill Herrin

        --
        William D. Herrin herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us
        3005 Crane Dr. Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>
        Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
        _______________________________________________
        PPML
        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the
ARIN Public Policy
        Mailing List (PPML at arin.net).
        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
        http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml Please contact the ARIN
Member Services
        Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
        _______________________________________________
        PPML
        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the
ARIN Public Policy
        Mailing List (PPML at arin.net).
        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
        http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml Please contact the ARIN
Member Services
        Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

      Thanks,
      John Von Essen
      (800) 248-1736 ext 100
      john at quonix.net

    _______________________________________________
    PPML
    You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
Public Policy
    Mailing List (PPML at arin.net).
    Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
    http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml Please contact the ARIN
Member Services
    Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20070912/1e34ff35/attachment.htm>