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<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>In cases where a
policy must apply uniformly, it has to be official</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>and not an internal
staff guideline.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>The big problem with
taking this out of the NRPM is that unless</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>there's sanctions
available to enforce correct DNS behavior, the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>staff can't do
anything because all the non-compliant network </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>operator has to do
is say since it's not spelled out in the NRPM,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>you can't do
anything to me if I don't do it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>At this point I'm
personally not sure any changes need to be made</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>at all. But
clearly the OP has a problem and the purpose of this</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>list and the policy
process is essentially to present problems to</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>the community and
see what the response is.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thus I think your
proposal is as needed as Johns. If the membership</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>really doesen't want
the RIR to bother with this, they will vote your</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>policy in. If
not, they will vote John's policy in (whenever it's
submitted)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>So let's see what
they want to do.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=044463218-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Ted</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Owen DeLong
[mailto:owen@delong.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Ted Mittelstaedt<BR><B>Cc:</B> John Von Essen; Public Policy
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame
Server policy<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Ted,
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>I believe you
miss the point of my proposal. While I do believe that</DIV>
<DIV>ARIN has a role to play in applying the clue bat to lame or partially
lame</DIV>
<DIV>ISPs and addressing John's issue, my point is that it belongs in
operational</DIV>
<DIV>guidelines to ARIN staff and not in the NRPM.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>My proposal
talks about what I think belongs in the NRPM and is</DIV>
<DIV>not a direct expression of how I feel about what ARIN staff should
or</DIV>
<DIV>should not be doing with respect to this particular issue. I would
fully</DIV>
<DIV>support an ACSP recommendation that ARIN address all IN-ADDR</DIV>
<DIV>lameness whether complete or not on any direct assignment. This
will</DIV>
<DIV>potentially require ARIN to examine as many as 255 zones in IPv4
for</DIV>
<DIV>a single assignment.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>I would oppose
any suggestion requiring ARIN to drill down</DIV>
<DIV>to lame delegations made by the ISPs relating to reassignment or</DIV>
<DIV>reallocations made by the ISP because of dramatically increasing</DIV>
<DIV>workload for dramatically decreasing return on investment and</DIV>
<DIV>because there is a limit to the extent to which I believe ARIN
should</DIV>
<DIV>engage in telling operators how to run their network (let alone
their</DIV>
<DIV>customers' networks).</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>I will also
oppose any policy regarding the operational and/or</DIV>
<DIV>implementation details of lame delegations because I firmly believe</DIV>
<DIV>this is not the role of the NRPM and should be addressed with</DIV>
<DIV>operational procedures and recommendations rather than with</DIV>
<DIV>number resource policies.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Owen</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 11, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes John you are
correct but the way things often work on this list is someone like Owen
will</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>submit a policy
to remove something that shouldn't obviously be removed, the result
of</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>which will
convert a bunch of fence sitters into proponents of keeping
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>The list
membership needs Owens "just kill it" proposal precisely to have something
to</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial size=2>vote down. A no
vote commits the person voting no, to supporting </FONT></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>the
policy.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=310071800-12092007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>If Owens
proposal is voted down, that will destroy all of the "it's not the RIR's
responsibility</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>to enforce
sanctions against bad nameserver operators" arguments, and we can move the
discussion</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>to
something productive of how to actually fix the
problem.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=310071800-12092007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>Your
proposal might be premature - you might find it better to campaign against
Owens</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=310071800-12092007>proposal
first.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=310071800-12092007><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Ted</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> ppml-bounces@arin.net
[<A
href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net">mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>John Von Essen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 11, 2007
4:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Public Policy Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[ppml] Policy Proposal -- Eliminate Lame Server
policy<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I do plan to submit my proposal. My final
comment on all of this is with regards to ARIN's stance on operational
issues.
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I agree ARIN should be careful, but keep in mind ARIN does provide an
operational function of reverse DNS authority delegation. Because ARIN
engages in this very-real activity, policy must exist to cover its
implementation, design, and overall operational health.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>If ARIN just did AS numbers and IP allocation, and another
organization did reverse delegation, say Network Solutions, then YES -
ARIN should not get involved with operational issues of reverse DNS. But
that fact is ARIN does do reverse DNS delegation. When I do a dig on an
IP, I see alot of ARIN servers in the output!</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>-John</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Azinger, Marla wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I would like to see a proposal that is along
the lines of clarifying in addition to Owens proposal to just take it
away.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Hopefully we havnt scared
John off and he will give a wack at it.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Cheers!</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Marla</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original Message-----</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: <A
href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net">ppml-bounces@arin.net</A> [<A
href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net">mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net</A>]On
Behalf Of</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">William Herrin</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: Owen DeLong</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Cc: Public Policy Mailing List</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: Re: [ppml] Policy Proposal --
Eliminate Lame Server policy</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On 9/11/07, Owen DeLong <<A
href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">1.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>Policy Proposal Name: Deprecate Lame Server Policy</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">7.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>Policy statement:</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN>Delete section 7 from the
NRPM</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Owen,</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Are you sure this is the right way to move on
this? If we're going to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">call ISPs "Local Internet Registries,"
shouldn't we expect them to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">behave as internet registries and do the things
that internet</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">registries do, including reallocation and
assignment of the RDNS</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">attached to every IP address?</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Regards,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Bill Herrin</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">--<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">William D. Herrin<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</A></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">3005 Crane Dr.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Web: <<A
href="http://bill.herrin.us/">http://bill.herrin.us/</A>></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Falls Church, VA 22042-3004</DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPAN
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<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV>John Von Essen</DIV>
<DIV>(800) 248-1736 ext 100</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:john@quonix.net">john@quonix.net</A></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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