[ppml] getting converts to V6

Tue May 15 14:55:37 EDT 2007

On Tue, 15 May 2007, Cliff Bedore wrote:

> I am a latecomer to this group but have been on the internet since 1990
> or so and have a single grandfathered Class C address.  I see a lot of
> ideas proposed to get v4 extended and v6 started.  Most seem hard or
> convoluted to implement.
>
> Right now I have a no fee grandfathered Class C and it will probably do
> me until I retire.  To do anything with V6, I'd have to get involved
> with lots of paperwork and fees.  I have absolutely no incentive to go

Paperwork and fees from whom?

  The ARIN fees for IPv6 address space are currently waived.  The form to 
obtain v6 space from ARIN is rather simple, and probably wouldn't take 
more than a couple of minutes for an enduser.  Same for the RSA and 
billing paperwork.

> to v6.  On the other hand, I'd like to work with v6 just to get it
> working and understand it.
>
> If there is really a desire to get v6 started, ARIN should give every
> entity that has existing IPv4 addresses equivalent IPv6 addresses under
> whatever provisions they are under now, including no fees for
> grandfathered PI addresses like mine.
>

Who's to say that existing v4 holders need or want an equivalent amount of 
space in v6?  Alot of existing v4 holders are defunct, why give them v6 
space?  Having folks come back to get v6 space serves other purposes 
as well: you have to re-validate your contact information, sign an RSA 
agreement,  and it allows ARIN to provide stats on how much v6 space is 
being handed out over time.  Just handing out blocks to isn't very good 
stewardship - and while v6 is plentiful, managing it well from the outset 
is still a good idea.

>
> The rationale is as follows.  Most of the early adopters (not covered by
> ARIN) were moderately technical and are most likely to start using v6
> but have no incentive to do so.

This assumes that most of the early adopters are still around.. and I 
think that you would find that a lot of folks aren't still around.  Some 
of the v6 early adopters are the same.. but some never held a legacy 
block.

>  Giving them the equivalent privileges
> in v6 without all the agreements and paperwork would eliminate any
> reason for not giving v6 a try.

Are you averse to paperwork?  the RSA agreement?  or that ARIN could 
revoke your assignment?  I don't think it would be popular at all, don't 
even know if it would be possible, that is if ARIN's legal dept would 
allow it, for resources to be handed out without an RSA agreement.

>It may upset some but maybe the early
> adopters should get a break just for being early adopters.  Certainly if

They are - early adopters of v6 space are currently not being charged fees 
for the space.

> they want to expand beyond what they have grandfathered, they should
> come under the new rules.  You're going to trade off giving some people
> something for free against the probability that they will be more likely
> to start using v6 to get things rolling.  If I got IPv6 addresses, it
> would give me leverage to get my upstream ISP to route IPv6.  Once they
> start, it will get easier and easier to get v6 going.
>

Have you asked your upstream to assign you IPv6 space?

   There is an argument here to be made about heirarchical assignment of 
address space for route aggregation.  (I point you to all the data about 
route table growth, particularly with the addition of IPv6 routes)

You've already noted that you probably could continue using your existing 
v4 block for a long time, which sounds to me like you don't have a 
business case for prodding your provider into providing v6 transit.

>
> Getting IPv6 going is something like running a yard sale.  You're not in
> it to make money, you're in it to get rid of stuff (in this case unused
> IPv6 addresses)  If you run a yard sale with things priced too high, you
> just end up dragging a lot of stuff back to the basement.  If you price
> them really low, you won't have to carry them back to the basement and
> you'll end up with a lot more money than you'd have from not selling all
> the stuff you priced too high.
>

Last I checked ARIN was a non-profit (different from a not for profit, 
btw) and their goal isn't to make money - but to be good stewards in the 
distribution and management of a finite resource.

>
> Is it fair to everyone? Maybe not.  Will it work? Who knows?  What
> would you lose?  A few of the ridiculously large number of IPv6
> addresses that aren't being used anyhow.  But the odds favor getting at
> least some additional IPv6 addresses working.
>
>
> IPv6 is at the same point income taxes were at the start of WWII.  The
> government wanted to start withholding taxes in advance but couldn't
> figure out how to do that without whacking people twice with taxes
> during the starting year.  Someone proposed the idea of forgiving the
> taxes for the year prior and just start collecting the withholding on
> Jan 1 and go forward.  People were convinced that the government would
> go broke but in fact that didn't happen since they started collecting
> the current year taxes immediately rather than get a lump sum 16 months
> later and we've happily(?) paid monthly withholding ever since and
> haven't complained about taxes nearly as much since we never see the
> money in our pocket in the first place.  We need something like that
> giveaway to get IPv6 started.
>
> Having painted a somewhat rosy picture of what could happen, I am also
> reminded of the great GOSIP fiasco of the early 90's where the US
> government was directed to start actively using OSI  which was supposed
> to offer all(most of?) the options that v6 is supposed to offer.  That
> of course died a horrible death.  Since v4 is running out, there is more
> incentive to make v6 work but people will need much more incentive than
> I've seen offered so far or they will just get more and more clever
> about stretching out v4.
>
> I'm sure I have oversimplified some of this, but I thought I'd offer the
> viewpoint of a newcomer/outsider to the group as to what I think needs
> to be done to get v6 going.
>

I agree that new ideas and discussion on advancing v6 deployment should 
happen - and the more people that talk about it, that think about it the 
better.

>
>
> Cliff Bedore
> 7403 Radcliffe Dr. College Park MD 20740
> cliffb at cjbsys.bdb.com http://www.bdb.com
> Amateur Radio Call Sign W3CB For info on ham radio, http://www.arrl.org/
>
>
>
>
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