[ppml] Deaggregation in the ARIN region Was: [nanog] The Ci dr Report

[Jon Lewis]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Owen DeLong wrote:

> A large percentage of ARIN "members" have been to NANOG.

How sure are you about that?...especially using my loose definition of
ARIN "members" as any network with an ASN from ARIN?  There are lots of
companies that have multihomed (and therefore gotten at least an ASN so
they can do BGP) who have no interest in going to NANOG meetings...or
aren't even aware of them.  To my knowledge, of the 2 ISPs I've worked
for, only the current one has ever sent anyone to a NANOG meeting...and
that was me at my request a few meetings ago when it was nearby in Miami.
Of the BGP customers I've had, I'm confident none of them have been to a
meeting...and I'd bet at least some of them don't know what NANOG is.

If nanog.org had a list of attendees by ASN, that would be nice to look at
to see how many unique ASNs have been represented at a NANOG, but all I
could find was names/companies for each meeting in really terrible looking
HTML.  And just sending someone to a meeting is no guarantee they'll pick
up any BGP clue.

> A decent percentage of ARIN members don't have ASNs.

What sort of members are they then?

> A decent percentage of entities with ASNs are NOT ARIN members.

Yeah...I realized that before my last message when I checked and saw that
just having an ASN does not make you a member...thus my use of "members".

> Yep.  And the big NSPs have mostly been to NANOG at least once or twice.

Not debating that...the big ones obviously know better, but have their
reasons, perhaps technical, perhaps legacy and not enough clueful spare
man hours to get it cleaned up, or just no motivation to.

> Perhaps, but, how many of the orgs in this class are recently issued
> (>35000) ASNs?  I tend to suspect it is a small percentage of the group.

What does recently issued have to do with it, and what's the reference to
>35000?  AFAICT, ARIN appears to be up to about AS33642 (issued last
Friday).  There are ARIN-nonmembers who've had ASNs for years and could
have used some BGP tips years ago.

> I agree that throwing up the links and such wouldn't be a bad idea for
> ARIN to do, but, it's not quite as simple as you suggest.  Someone
> needs to periodically check those links and find new ones when the old
> ones become invalid.

So put up locally "cached" copies with links to the originals...if the
original links go stale, nothing's really lost.  Or just make up original
content based on info gathered from things like some of Avi's BGP howtos.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jon Lewis                   |  I route
 Senior Network Engineer     |  therefore you are
 Atlantic Net                |
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