[ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE

[Sweeting, John]

Sorry but you are wrong about Teleglobe; we quit APNIC 5 months ago and do
not use any more of their space. Also as I stated it was my personal views
and not that of the company that I work for or as a member of the AC. Maybe
in Memphis we (you and I) can sit down and have a real long discussion about
the reality of life, business and the Internet but like you I do not have
time for that long of an email. And by the way, your first remark is the
very thinking that got most telecoms in financial trouble in the first place
including Teleglobe. 

-----Original Message-----
From: william at elan.net
To: 'ppml at arin.net '
Sent: 3/2/03 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: [ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE

If you have money to pay for undersea fiber and to support what are 
probably several POPs in seversl countries, I don't think expense in ips

is going be that significant in comparison to that.

But to be more exact, if company has unified multi-region network, I
think 
its ok for it to use ip block from only one RIR for its own
infrastructure,
but if the same company assigns or allocates ip blocks to customers in 
other regions, those ip blocks (for customer networks which are specific

to only one region) should come from ip blocks issues by RIR in that
region.

If that is not done as described above and since there is general trend
to 
globalize in service provider area (almost all large so-called tier-1s 
and many smaller networks operate in several regions and account for 
sometimes up to 50% of internet transit to those regions), we end up
with 
large portions of internet blocks in other countries and regions using
ip 
blocks from different RIR that you inevitably end up with situations
where
ip blocks are no longer viewed as specific to any RIR and people
actually 
do begin to see RIRs as kind of paralled organizations in competition to

each other. I think this is completely opposite to vision of to devide
ip 
assignment and allocations on regional basis and created RIRs, its not
for 
nothing that every RIR has list of countries it supports! I can also
list
several other reasons to keep regional ip blocks separate and not mix it

all up, just don't have time for long email right now.

P.S. And to my knowledge Teleglobe does have ip address blocks from ARIN

and APNIC and assigns ips to customers in Asia from APNIC blocks and not

from ARIN blocks just like I described above. So do other networks of 
global reach that I'v dealt with - such as Level3, Savvis, Worldcom,
etc.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Sweeting, John wrote:

>  Why should a company with a global internet have to deal with more
than one
> RIR? Do you realize the additional expense and drain on resources of
dealing
> with 4 or more registries? I (personally speaking) do not think that
there
> is any reason to pursue this line of reasoning, leave well enough
alone.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: william at elan.net
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Sent: 3/1/03 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE
> 
> I think this is wrong to allow "RIR Shopping" at all, there is a
reason 
> why we have RIRs for particular major world region and it should stay
> this 
> way, we should not be allowing companies to buy IP at one RIR and use
it
> 
> in completed different world order. Not only that but some
applications
> on being able to tell where client is is coming from sometimes
regions.
> I'm not really sure (yet) what policies (if any) RIRs should impliment
> to 
> stop RIR shopping but I view it as really negative thing. 
> 
> And util now I did not know that RIR shopping was even allowed, I
> consult 
> companies in different parts of the world and some companies are 
> connecting to the networks present in both US and other regions, well 
> when getting ips in other regions, ips were from block given from
other 
> RIR to that network and in US from ARIN to the network, this is for
all 
> networks I dealt with and I saw it as clear sign that networks obtain 
> separate ip blocks when they expand to Europe and to Asia. That is the

> way its supposed to be I think, maybe only the actual core (routers)
may
> 
> use ips from the same RIRs if that is important for the network in the

> way its setup.
> 
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Alec H. Peterson wrote:
> 
> > --On Saturday, March 1, 2003 0:03 -0500 "McBurnett, Jim" 
> > <jmcburnett at msmgmt.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > If we can't stop nitpicking the policies and push forward,
> > > we may see other RIRs get the customers while ARIN falls behind...
> > 
> > We aren't in competition with the other RIRs.
> > 
> > We also do not have to do anything just because the other RIRs do
it.
> > 
> > As I've said before, people will lie and cheat no matter what we do
> with 
> > our policies.  We need to do what we think is best for the part of
the
> 
> > world that ARIN serves.
> > 
> > Alec
> > 
> > --
> > Alec H. Peterson -- ahp at hilander.com
> > Chief Technology Officer
> > Catbird Networks, http://www.catbird.com