[ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE

[william at elan.net]

If you have money to pay for undersea fiber and to support what are 
probably several POPs in seversl countries, I don't think expense in ips 
is going be that significant in comparison to that.

But to be more exact, if company has unified multi-region network, I think 
its ok for it to use ip block from only one RIR for its own infrastructure,
but if the same company assigns or allocates ip blocks to customers in 
other regions, those ip blocks (for customer networks which are specific 
to only one region) should come from ip blocks issues by RIR in that region.

If that is not done as described above and since there is general trend to 
globalize in service provider area (almost all large so-called tier-1s 
and many smaller networks operate in several regions and account for 
sometimes up to 50% of internet transit to those regions), we end up with 
large portions of internet blocks in other countries and regions using ip 
blocks from different RIR that you inevitably end up with situations where
ip blocks are no longer viewed as specific to any RIR and people actually 
do begin to see RIRs as kind of paralled organizations in competition to 
each other. I think this is completely opposite to vision of to devide ip 
assignment and allocations on regional basis and created RIRs, its not for 
nothing that every RIR has list of countries it supports! I can also list
several other reasons to keep regional ip blocks separate and not mix it 
all up, just don't have time for long email right now.

P.S. And to my knowledge Teleglobe does have ip address blocks from ARIN 
and APNIC and assigns ips to customers in Asia from APNIC blocks and not 
from ARIN blocks just like I described above. So do other networks of 
global reach that I'v dealt with - such as Level3, Savvis, Worldcom, etc.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Sweeting, John wrote:

>  Why should a company with a global internet have to deal with more than one
> RIR? Do you realize the additional expense and drain on resources of dealing
> with 4 or more registries? I (personally speaking) do not think that there
> is any reason to pursue this line of reasoning, leave well enough alone.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: william at elan.net
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Sent: 3/1/03 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [ppml] RIR shopping -- AND MORE
> 
> I think this is wrong to allow "RIR Shopping" at all, there is a reason 
> why we have RIRs for particular major world region and it should stay
> this 
> way, we should not be allowing companies to buy IP at one RIR and use it
> 
> in completed different world order. Not only that but some applications
> on being able to tell where client is is coming from sometimes regions.
> I'm not really sure (yet) what policies (if any) RIRs should impliment
> to 
> stop RIR shopping but I view it as really negative thing. 
> 
> And util now I did not know that RIR shopping was even allowed, I
> consult 
> companies in different parts of the world and some companies are 
> connecting to the networks present in both US and other regions, well 
> when getting ips in other regions, ips were from block given from other 
> RIR to that network and in US from ARIN to the network, this is for all 
> networks I dealt with and I saw it as clear sign that networks obtain 
> separate ip blocks when they expand to Europe and to Asia. That is the 
> way its supposed to be I think, maybe only the actual core (routers) may
> 
> use ips from the same RIRs if that is important for the network in the 
> way its setup.
> 
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Alec H. Peterson wrote:
> 
> > --On Saturday, March 1, 2003 0:03 -0500 "McBurnett, Jim" 
> > <jmcburnett at msmgmt.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > If we can't stop nitpicking the policies and push forward,
> > > we may see other RIRs get the customers while ARIN falls behind...
> > 
> > We aren't in competition with the other RIRs.
> > 
> > We also do not have to do anything just because the other RIRs do it.
> > 
> > As I've said before, people will lie and cheat no matter what we do
> with 
> > our policies.  We need to do what we think is best for the part of the
> 
> > world that ARIN serves.
> > 
> > Alec
> > 
> > --
> > Alec H. Peterson -- ahp at hilander.com
> > Chief Technology Officer
> > Catbird Networks, http://www.catbird.com