[arin-discuss] [arin-ppml] ARIN as a public interest business

[John Curran]

David - Thanks... That is correct, I typo'd the number and meant to reference
ARIN-Prop-163 "Dedicated resources for initial ISP allocations"

<http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2012-February/024054.html>

/John

On Feb 23, 2012, at 5:38 PM, David Farmer wrote:

> John,
> 
> I think you mean ARIN-prop-163 - Dedicated resources for initial ISP allocations, and not ARIN-prop-165 - Eliminate Needs-Based Justification on 8.3 Specified Transfers.  Otherwise I'm really confused.
> 
> On 2/23/12 16:13 CST, John Curran wrote:
>> Luke -
>> 
>>   Thanks for that input.  Do you subscribe the the ARIN Public Policy
>>   mailing list?
>> 
>>   The reason I ask is that there was recently a proposal to reserve
>>   space for new entrants, but it did not receive much discussion.
>>   Your note below suggests something very similar, and I was wondering
>>   if you had seen the proposal (ARIN Policy Proposal 165) when it came
>>   out?
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> /John
>> 
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>> 
>> On Feb 23, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Luke S. Crawford wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 09:16:32AM -0500, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>>> Larger providers want fees to stay the same or higher? You're very
>>>> wrong about that. Very wrong. Noone wants to pay higher fees,
>>>> especially when ARIN has $30 million in cash sitting in the bank not
>>>> working for the members in a way that we want it to work for us.
>>> 
>>> Hm.  I am both small and low-margin.   I recently obtained my first /20.
>>> I do a lot of consulting for slightly larger (but still quite small
>>> in the scheme of things) companies.
>>> 
>>> When I got my own /20 after five years of working to get enough users
>>> to justify it?  my per-ip costs immediately began falling as I
>>> returned space to my upstreams, and I'm in a much stronger position to
>>> negotiate new bandwidth contracts.   From what I see from others
>>> towards my end of the market?  they'd be happy to pay quite a lot
>>> more if it meant they would get their own allocation sooner (rather
>>> than getting small blocks piecemeal from your upstreams, then
>>> getting a direct block, then renumbering out of your upstream IPs.)
>>> 
>>> I mean, I'm sure other companies have different cost structures;  some
>>> of them may even have less revenue per IP than I do.  But the thing I worry
>>> about is "can I renumber out of all my PA space before runout?"  relying
>>> on PA space is an extremely frightening thing, especially as providers
>>> even now are using runout as an excuse to raise prices.
>>> 
>>> I'm just saying, for me?  I'd be quite happy paying ARIN 2x or 3x as
>>> much if it meant, say, that some space would be reserved for when
>>> I could justify it.  Using IPs you don't have direct from ARIN
>>> is a frighteningly expensive proposition. The cheapest PA /24s
>>> I have cost me a grand a year.   The most expensive PA /24s cost
>>> me $384.  And this is the line item on the invoice; I believe I'm
>>> paying more than I need to for the rest of the services I get from
>>> those providers because they know it's a huge pain for me to lose
>>> those IPs before I finish the painful process of getting everyone to
>>> move.   Nearly all of those blocks were free with the bandwidth
>>> when the contract started.
>>> 
>>> Certainly, not everyone feels this way, (and certainly, it's more
>>> difficult for me to renumber than for most people, and my current
>>> difficulties are largely unrelated to anything but some poorly-considered
>>> promises I have made to my own customers.)  but I can't tell you the
>>> number of consulting clients (that were not large enough to justify
>>> a direct allocation)  that just wanted to write a large check to get
>>> a large block from ARIN.
>>> 
>>> If anything, with v4 runout approaching, I'm glad they have something of a
>>> war chest to help smooth runout.  I mean, I don't claim to know what is
>>> going to happen, but I'm pretty sure that if ARIN no longer has address
>>> space, it's going to be a /whole lot/ more difficult for those of us
>>> who came of age after CIDR and therefore don't have huge class B blocks
>>> to compete in spaces that require lots of low-cost IPv4 addresses, like
>>> the virtual private server market.
>>> 
>>> So yeah, if anything?   I'd vote to charge me more if it means ARIN is
>>> more prepared for runout.  (I don't know if they can use money to help
>>> solve that problem, but they are in a position to do something more than
>>> anyone else is.)
>>> 
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> 
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