[arin-discuss] [arin-ppml] ARIN as a public interest business

[David Farmer]

John,

I think you mean ARIN-prop-163 - Dedicated resources for initial ISP 
allocations, and not ARIN-prop-165 - Eliminate Needs-Based Justification 
on 8.3 Specified Transfers.  Otherwise I'm really confused.

On 2/23/12 16:13 CST, John Curran wrote:
> Luke -
>
>    Thanks for that input.  Do you subscribe the the ARIN Public Policy
>    mailing list?
>
>    The reason I ask is that there was recently a proposal to reserve
>    space for new entrants, but it did not receive much discussion.
>    Your note below suggests something very similar, and I was wondering
>    if you had seen the proposal (ARIN Policy Proposal 165) when it came
>    out?
>
> Thanks again!
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
>
> On Feb 23, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Luke S. Crawford wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 09:16:32AM -0500, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>> Larger providers want fees to stay the same or higher? You're very
>>> wrong about that. Very wrong. Noone wants to pay higher fees,
>>> especially when ARIN has $30 million in cash sitting in the bank not
>>> working for the members in a way that we want it to work for us.
>>
>> Hm.  I am both small and low-margin.   I recently obtained my first /20.
>> I do a lot of consulting for slightly larger (but still quite small
>> in the scheme of things) companies.
>>
>> When I got my own /20 after five years of working to get enough users
>> to justify it?  my per-ip costs immediately began falling as I
>> returned space to my upstreams, and I'm in a much stronger position to
>> negotiate new bandwidth contracts.   From what I see from others
>> towards my end of the market?  they'd be happy to pay quite a lot
>> more if it meant they would get their own allocation sooner (rather
>> than getting small blocks piecemeal from your upstreams, then
>> getting a direct block, then renumbering out of your upstream IPs.)
>>
>> I mean, I'm sure other companies have different cost structures;  some
>> of them may even have less revenue per IP than I do.  But the thing I worry
>> about is "can I renumber out of all my PA space before runout?"  relying
>> on PA space is an extremely frightening thing, especially as providers
>> even now are using runout as an excuse to raise prices.
>>
>> I'm just saying, for me?  I'd be quite happy paying ARIN 2x or 3x as
>> much if it meant, say, that some space would be reserved for when
>> I could justify it.  Using IPs you don't have direct from ARIN
>> is a frighteningly expensive proposition. The cheapest PA /24s
>> I have cost me a grand a year.   The most expensive PA /24s cost
>> me $384.  And this is the line item on the invoice; I believe I'm
>> paying more than I need to for the rest of the services I get from
>> those providers because they know it's a huge pain for me to lose
>> those IPs before I finish the painful process of getting everyone to
>> move.   Nearly all of those blocks were free with the bandwidth
>> when the contract started.
>>
>> Certainly, not everyone feels this way, (and certainly, it's more
>> difficult for me to renumber than for most people, and my current
>> difficulties are largely unrelated to anything but some poorly-considered
>> promises I have made to my own customers.)  but I can't tell you the
>> number of consulting clients (that were not large enough to justify
>> a direct allocation)  that just wanted to write a large check to get
>> a large block from ARIN.
>>
>> If anything, with v4 runout approaching, I'm glad they have something of a
>> war chest to help smooth runout.  I mean, I don't claim to know what is
>> going to happen, but I'm pretty sure that if ARIN no longer has address
>> space, it's going to be a /whole lot/ more difficult for those of us
>> who came of age after CIDR and therefore don't have huge class B blocks
>> to compete in spaces that require lots of low-cost IPv4 addresses, like
>> the virtual private server market.
>>
>> So yeah, if anything?   I'd vote to charge me more if it means ARIN is
>> more prepared for runout.  (I don't know if they can use money to help
>> solve that problem, but they are in a position to do something more than
>> anyone else is.)
>>
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