[arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum

Sun Apr 18 19:18:18 EDT 2010

I was told by an ARIN rep that our customer would not be able to get any addresses at all unless they were already using at least 50% of the requested amount in public addresses that were assigned by their upstreams.

Even if it were possible to get the addresses from the upstreams, we would really prefer not to, as renumbering twice just seems silly.

The facts are that this is a legitimate ISP that has been a victim of terrible policy by their upstream providers, and now that they are trying to fix their issues by getting a proper allocation, they are unable to.

I understand the crunch caused by the depletion of addresses, but the specific requirement of having to already be using public addresses to get more is completely backwards. The need should be the only factor.

The current policy wastes IPs by forcing ISPs to have an allocation from their upstream in addition to the provider-independent space. It could be years before an ISP is able to renumber all of their customers twice.

-Randy

--
| Randy Carpenter
| V.P., IT Services
| First Network Group, Inc.
| Wapakoneta, OH
| (419)739-9240, x1
--

----- "Erik Levitt" <elevitt at endstream.com> wrote:

> Randy,
> 
> ARIN should approve a /21 immediately if they are legitimately using
> it
> and it can be SWIPed properly.  If you get 4 /24's from two providers
> in
> addition to the /21, then you have a /20 worth of addresses, which
> means
> you can apply for the /19.  
> 
> You can usually use private address space to justify public space
> with
> ISPs.  
> 
> Given that I work for a VoIP interconnections provider I sympathize
> about NAT.  Although some suggest that NAT transversal is elegant, I
> would be to differ after watching customer after customer struggle to
> make it work.  On the other end, given the lack of address space
> resources left I sympathize with ARINs policy.  I wish that more
> people
> would adopt v6 faster as we can't go to v6 on our edge until every
> single one of our customers supports it, but I digress.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Erik
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Randy Carpenter
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:50 PM
> To: Ryan Duda
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> 
> 
> This seems futile when the absolute minimum they can get by with in
> the
> short term is a /20.
> 
> 
> -Randy
> 
> --
> | Randy Carpenter
> | V.P., IT Services
> | First Network Group, Inc.
> | Wapakoneta, OH
> | (419)739-9240, x1
> --
> 
> 
> ----- "Ryan Duda" <rpd at 123.net> wrote:
> 
> > Randy,
> > 
> > This is one road..
> > 
> > 1) Obtain an ASN, peer with Provider A and Provider B.
> > 2) When the justification is there request an additional /24 from
> > either 
> > provider A or provider B.
> > 3) Have efficient utilization of the 2 /24's.
> > 4) Request a /22 from ARIN
> > 
> > 
> > Ryan Duda
> > 123.net
> > 24275 Northwestern Hwy.
> > Southfield, MI 48075
> > Direct: 586.566.0564
> > Fax: 586.620.8005
> > NOC: 866.460.3503
> > Email: rpd at 123.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Randy Carpenter wrote:
> > > They have a /24, but the ARIN policy states that if you need a
> /19,
> > you already have to have 50% of that size already fully in use. Our
> > specific situation is that the ISP was forced to use private IPs
> for
> > purposes that should have been public to begin with.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Randy
> > > 
> > > --
> > > | Randy Carpenter
> > > | V.P., IT Services
> > > | First Network Group, Inc.
> > > | Wapakoneta, OH
> > > | (419)739-9240, x1
> > > --
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf at tndh.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > >> IANAL ... but they already have public address space assigned by
> > >> their
> > >> provider. That may only be a /32, but that is still public, and
> it
> > is
> > >> assigned by their provider. It would likely help make the case
> if
> > it
> > >> were a
> > >> static assignment, but dhcp is an assignment mechanism. YMMV
> > >>
> > >> Tony
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
> > >>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Randy Carpenter
> > >>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:56 PM
> > >>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > >>> Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I am working with a new customer who is in a bit of a pickle...
> > >>>
> > >>> They are an ISP and VoIP provider whose upstream provider
> > wouldn't
> > >> (or
> > >>> couldn't) give them many addresses.
> > >>> They resorted to using NATed private IPs for most of their
> > network,
> > >>> which is causing problems for their end user customers.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now that we are working with them, I am trying to find a
> solution
> > >> to
> > >>> get them public IPs. They are also soon to be multi-homed (They
> > have
> > >> 2
> > >>> connections, but no BGP yet). As an ISP, it would be best for
> > them
> > >> to
> > >>> have PI space.
> > >>>
> > >>> The issue is that one of the requirements for getting PI space
> > from
> > >>> ARIN is that you are already using Public space that was
> assigned
> > >> to
> > >>> you from an upstream provider. I spoke with someone from ARIN
> who
> > >> says
> > >>> there is no way around this. The need around a /19 of space,
> and
> > I
> > >>> cannot find any way to get it for them. The upstream providers
> > >> refuse
> > >>> to give them any.
> > >>>
> > >>> What can be done about this?  Would would there be a
> requirement
> > of
> > >>> already using someone else's IP space to get your own? That
> seems
> > >> like
> > >>> a complete waste of time, effort, money, and IPs!
> > >>>
> > >>> -Randy
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> | Randy Carpenter
> > >>> | V.P., IT Services
> > >>> | First Network Group, Inc.
> > >>> | RHCE
> > >>> | (419)739-9240, x1
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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