[arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice

[John Brown]

Natural person YOU or  Jurist person YOU ??

Remember that a corporation is considered an entity that is separate
from humans.

ARIN is not the place to battle spam or other bad packets.  

ARIN is a steward of binary resources and if you meet the requirements
you should have access to those binary resources.


John Brown
Candidate for AC

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
[mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:39 PM
To: Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice

Again, we have the problem of defining "you".  If each new application 
comes from a different org, how do you define whether to apply this
policy?

It's trivial to create a new corporation for each request, and state 
corporate privacy laws make it almost impossible to determine who's 
behind such a corporation.

-Scott

Owen DeLong wrote:
> What about a policy that covers the situation of repeated receipt and
> reclamation? For example:
>
> 1.    Standard process applies the first time you get address space
>     as it does today.
>
> 2.    You return the space or fail to pay your bill.
>
> 3.    You come back for a second round of addresses on a new "initial"
>     application. Based on your history, you are expected to front a 
> deposit
>     for your next two years renewal as well, 50% of which is
refundable
>     if you return your space at the end of the first year. (In other 
> words,
>     you pay 3 years up front, if you only use 1, you get 1 back, costs

> you
>     two.)  If you use for more than a year, the deposit is forfeit, 
> but, you don't
>     owe fees until you begin your fourth year of utilization.
>
> 4.    You return the space, get your one year refund, and subsequently
>     apply for a 3rd round of addressing on yet another new
application.
>
> 5.    This time, you're still charged on the 3-year deposit basis, 
> but, it is
>     completely non-refundable.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Owen
>
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Schiller, Heather A (HeatherSkanks)
wrote:
>
>>
>> I was reading Chris Morrow's comment on Nanog - about spammers..
>>
>> "The end of the discussion was along the lines of: "Yes, we know this
>> guy is bad news, but he always comes to us with the proper paperwork
and
>> numbers, there's nothing in the current policy set to deny him
address
>> resources. Happily though he never pays his bill after the first 12
>> months so we just reclaim whatever resources are allocated then."
(yes,
>> comments about more address space ending up on BL's were made, and
that
>> he probably doesn't pay because after the first 3 months the address
>> space is 'worthless' to him...)"
>>
>> ..and got to wondering, "Why doesn't ARIN charge first and last years
>> "rent" on resource allocations?"
>>
>> If you notify ARIN before your bill is due, that you will be
returning
>> the resource and not renewing, you get a refund.  If you don't notify
>> ARIN and your bill lapses, then ARIN isn't out the money they would
have
>> gotten from you, during the time they hold your resource
before/during
>> revocation for non-payment. (since most folks keep using it, you
should
>> still have to pay for it..)
>>
>> I'm not claiming this would make the spam thing any better.. just
raise
>> the financial bar, make them have to do work if they want their money
>> back.
>>
>> I don't know whether I'm even in favor of this or not.. but just
about
>> every other 'utility' type service has this practice, and maybe this
is
>> worth considering.  Maybe there is a reason ARIN doesn't do this..?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --Heather
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