[arin-discuss] Status of Investigations

Dean Anderson dean at av8.com
Fri Jan 18 12:20:50 EST 2008 

[ARIN agrees that discussion to recall Board members, to conduct
investigations of ARIN expenditures, and to stop certain ARIN
expenditures does not violate the ARIN AUP.]


I have to say this one more time:

Michael Smith does not have anything to do with my legal counsel, nor
anything to do with what topics or terms my counsel has approved.

As far as I know, Mr. Smith does not have anything to do with ARIN's
legal counsel.

The discussion of the topics I posted on December 28th are indeed
appropriate.

The preface to my message is not a "discovery preamble". Indeed there is
no such term as "discovery preamble" in Black's Law Dictionary. This
term is apparently a fabrication by Mr. Smith to embellish his argument.
The preface to my message reflects the agreement on appropriate topics
under the AUP.

It is clear that some people want to stop or impede these
investigations. ARIN itself is stonewalling and has not provided
sufficient responses to reasonable questions about its activities. For
some questions, ARIN has not responded at all.  Board Members (e.g.  
Scott Bradner) have refused to respond to direct questions about whether
they have a conflict of interest. However, Mr.  Smith's attempt to
influence and silence these discussions by baseless claims, is, well,
baseless.

		--Dean

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Michael Smith wrote:

> Hello Mel:
> 
> I have to say this one more time.  Dean has engaged legal counsel in  
> his complaints to/with ARIN and has prefaced all of his emails to this  
> list with a discovery preamble such that any responses can be used as  
> part of his claims.  As such, I don't think any of these discussions  
> are now appropriate for this or any list, regardless of whether they  
> were before.  Once you bring in the lawyers, it is up to them to come  
> to terms.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Smith - CISSP, GISP
> Adhost Internet LLC
> mksmith at adhost.com
> 
> 
> On Jan 4, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Stotyn, Mel wrote:
> 
> >
> > I disagree with both Jeff and Chad regarding their criticism of Dean  
> > and
> > the appropriateness of his discussion.
> >
> > Jeff:
> > I don't think that you can realistically claim to know what Dean  
> > does or
> > doesn't care about nor what he really wants. I interpret differently
> > than you. To me, Dean appears to have more than one concern, not just
> > the legacy issue but also the propriety of ARIN's finances and the
> > oversight provided by it's board members. It does seem possible to me
> > that Dean could have more than one concern at a time. For you to clip
> > out one of several of Dean's examples of possible impropriety, and  
> > them
> > claim to know that the phrase "Legacy RSA" within that clip is really
> > his only concern, is both unfair and perhaps a little inflammatory.
> >
> > Chad:
> > I think that Dean's requests for information from ARIN, to verify his
> > concerns, is appropriate and not innuendo. The lack of cogent  
> > responses
> > has been the biggest problem for me while "listening in". Many of the
> > responses, from ARIN board members, to his queries have been
> > obfuscations, and his attempts to get clear answers has caused  
> > increased
> > traffic in the discussion, but the root problem is lack of clear,
> > informative answers.
> >
> > Both:
> > I think that this current incarnation of the discussion is generally
> > both relevant and appropriate for the ARIN-DISCUSS mailing list if we
> > are to have enough relevant information to apply to a vote, if that
> > finally comes. To be asked to just vote on a recall or to vote
> > for/against someone during a normal election without access to any
> > information prior to that event, is a waste of any democratic
> > responsibility.
> >
> > The biggest waste of my personal bandwidth is from those who just call
> > for shutting down the discussion or those who seem to just enjoy
> > throwing gasoline on flames. I don't think that Dean is the flamer,  
> > nor,
> > lately, the board members who have responded. I would like to see more
> > clear, concise, reasoned responses to Dean's questions. Then, I think,
> > the thread would seem more worth the time to read it.
> >
> > Mel Stotyn
> > Senior Operations Specialist
> > ENMAX Envision Inc.
> > mailto:mstotyn at enmax.com
> > Phone: 403 514-3443
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Chad Kissinger
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:51 AM
> > To: Jeff Calvert; arin-discuss at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Status of Investigations
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with Jeff.  Dean's got an axe to grind and obviously no bit of
> > slime is too insignificant, nor is any innuendo too flimsy for him to
> > throw into the fray.  He's lost all credibility with me.  I've had too
> > many customers who owed me money that sound just like him squawking
> > about any crazy thing they can think of to avoid the real issue...  
> > that
> > they owe me money.   Dean is doing the same thing... hoping that
> > everyone will be either worn out or intimidated by his threats.  I  
> > say,
> > put up or shut up.  Sue, or make a motion to change something under  
> > the
> > governing rules of ARIN.
> >
> > My opinion on the real issue remains:
> >
> > 1.  ARIN should collect as little money as possible to accomplish its
> > core mission.
> > 2.  The collections should be spread out evenly amongst the people who
> > derive benefit from ARIN's service... i.e. everyone who uses an IP
> > address under ARIN's "authority".  Legacy holders included.
> >
> >
> > Onramp Access
> > chad kissinger  |  president  |  onramp access, inc.
> > p: 512.322.9200  |  f: 512.476.2878  |  www.onr.com your internet
> > operations  |  built  |  deployed  |  managed
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Calvert
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:11 AM
> > To: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Status of Investigations
> >
> >
> >
> >> Board member performance is the failure to obtain a legal opinion on
> >> the Legacy RSA and the scheme to threaten Legacies with denial of
> >> services unless they transferred rights to ARIN through the Legacy
> > RSA.
> >
> > And Dean gets back to his real complaint.  This entire thread is a red
> > herring.  Dean doesn't care about 10 year old lawsuits, NANOG
> > attendance, marketing budgets, or recall elections.  Dean wants to the
> > Legacy IP allocation policy to remain unchanged, and he will  
> > continue to
> > harass the ARIN board until he gets his way.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Calvert
> > Network Administrator
> >
> > E: jcalvert at cyrusone.com
> > W: www.cyrusone.com
> >
> > ************************************************************************
> > This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) named above and
> > may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
> > person named or have not been authorized by them to access their mail,
> > please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any
> > attachments without reading, saving, or forwarding.
> > ************************************************************************
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARIN-Discuss
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the  
> > ARIN Discussion
> > Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> > Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net  
> > if you experience any issues.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN 
> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net
> if you experience any issues.
> 
> 

-- 
Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
www.av8.net         faster, more reliable, better service
617 344 9000

More information about the ARIN-discuss mailing list