[arin-discuss] SPAM-WARN:Re: [ppml] Counsel statement on Legacy assignments?

[Ron Cleven]

Mike,

Thanks for "doing the math".  Yes, we are a small ISP and we have 
frequently had to compete with the "big guys" who play fast and loose 
with their IP addresses in order to kill competition.  When we first 
started, we were using IP space provided by our upstream providers. 
When we finally reached a large enough size such that we needed our own 
ARIN allocation, it took MONTHS to get our upstream providers to reclaim 
our old IP addresses.  One of them couldn't even tell us what their 
process was to do so.  While that is anecdotal, it fairly illustrates 
how large players do not bother to conserve IPV4 space.  If they were 
paying for it, you can be sure they would.

I am really bummed that these basic mathematical principles and the 
basic laws of economics seem lost on many of the contributors to this 
discussion.  I assume the vocal ones are protecting their own legacy 
turf or their own position as large entrenched ISP's (or perhaps they 
simply have lots of IP's and they don't feel like properly organizing 
their networks).  It would be interesting to have full disclosure in 
that regard.

Thanks again,

Ron


> There are approximately 73 X-Large members. A /13 has 2048 /24. They pay for
> 149,504 /24s. Given from ARIN data that X-Large holds over 79% of /24. Given
> that my addition of 1,148,855  ARIN allocated /24 since 1999 is
> approximately close, then X-Large are holding approximately 907,595 /24.
> That is 758,091 _free_ /24, or approximately 100,000 /24 per X-Large.
> 
> It requires only 3 (out of 73) of the mathematical average 100,000 _free_
> /24 to exceed the total of all other /24 held by all other ISP members of
> ARIN.
> 
> Those same X-Large use those /24 to defend their turf in competition. I have
> seen it and I have heard about it. It is easy to give something away when it
> does not cost you anything. Before someone jumps in to refute this, how do
> you know they do not do this? What, you audited 900,000 /24?
> 
> I am really, really tired of people telling me that IP addresses have no
> value, therefore the community pool of IP resources has no value. Regardless
> of where IPV6 stands, when the V4 pool runs out, we will see how much value
> an IP address has. It will not be $0.00.
>