[ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?

[Steve Noble]

Hi Adam,

You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.

Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:
>
> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>
It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service 
by ARIN for multiple years.
>
> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the 
> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car 
> insurance if you don't have an accident.  Or that you aren't 
> guaranteed to watch CBS content even though it's included in your 
> cable bundle: you're paying for (among other things) the right to 
> access it on demand.
>
> As far as I know, however, paying your fee /does/ guarantee that ARIN 
> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>
That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any 
services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their 
database.  I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given 
access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update the mailing address, 
which I believe you are required to keep updated.
>
> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full 
> advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has 
> fixed costs regardless.  Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for 
> packages, regardless of which channels in that package you watch.  
> When you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether 
> you spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16 hours.  Both examples, like 
> ARIN, are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at 
> all*, so the consumer is expected to defray those.  (Insurance isn't 
> so much a fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it 
> works out much the same in the end.)
>
If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would 
expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should 
expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide 
services?  Since ARIN does not guarantee that the objects are usable, we 
are not paying for that, we are paying for services.
>
> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other 
> provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't 
> get to pick and choose.  Where we do get to, the overhead is then 
> baked into each and every price, and each and every one of us gets a 
> raw deal.  I shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look 
> like.
>
It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be 
required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied service.
>
> -Adam Thompson
>  athompso at athompso.net
>
>
> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>
>>     Steve -
>>
>>         As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for
>>         all of the resources in the registry – and these services are
>>         provided even for number resources that have no requests
>>         pending or when there are requests pending to change
>>         information but that lack proper documentation.
>>         The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>>         change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>>         ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>>         customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration
>>         to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services
>>         already included :-) 
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive 
>> service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not 
>> on resources.  If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee 
>> should be reduced or removed.
>>
>> -- 
>> Thank you,
>> Steven
>>
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>
>

-- 
Thank you,
Steven
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