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</head><body text="#000000">Hi Adam,<br>
<br>
You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.<br>
<br>
<span>Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net"
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<p>Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.</p>
</blockquote>
It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service
by ARIN for multiple years.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net"
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much
the same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
insurance if you don't have an accident. Or that you aren't guaranteed
to watch CBS content even though it's included in your cable bundle:
you're paying for (among other things) the right to access it on demand.</p>
<p>As far as I know, however, paying your fee <em>does</em> guarantee that
ARIN services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want
it.</p>
</blockquote>
That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any
services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their
database. I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given
access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update the mailing address,
which I believe you are required to keep updated.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net"
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<p>We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full
advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has
fixed costs regardless. Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for
packages, regardless of which channels in that package you watch. When
you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether you
spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16 hours. Both examples, like ARIN,
are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at all*,
so the consumer is expected to defray those. (Insurance isn't so much a
fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it works out
much the same in the end.)</p>
</blockquote>
If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would
expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should
expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide
services? Since ARIN does not guarantee that the objects are usable, we
are not paying for that, we are paying for services.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net"
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>I don't see how this is substantially different from any other
provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't get
to pick and choose. Where we do get to, the overhead is then baked into
each and every price, and each and every one of us gets a raw deal. I
shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look like.</p>
</blockquote>
It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be
required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied
service.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net"
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>-Adam Thompson<br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:athompso@athompso.net">athompso@athompso.net</a></p>
<p><br></p>
<p>On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:</p>
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<br> <br> <span>John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:</span><br>
<blockquote style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;"><div>
<div> </div>
Steve - </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div>As
noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all of the
resources in the registry – and these services are provided even for
number resources that have no requests pending or when there are
requests pending to change information but that lack proper
documentation. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for ASN's
(although it will make them go away for many end-user customers with
IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the Registration
Services Plan with ASN registry services already included :-) </div></blockquote></blockquote>
<br> Hi John,<br> <br> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you
will receive service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on
usage, not on resources. If ARIN does not provide the services, then
the fee should be reduced or removed.<br> <br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>Thank you,<br> Steven</div>
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<p><br></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>Thank you,<br>
Steven<br>
</div>
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