[arin-ppml] Revised - Draft Policy ARIN-2025-1: Clarify ISP and LIR Definitions and References to Address Ambiguity in NRPM Text

[Mohibul Mahmud]

Hi all,

Just to clarify: my earlier mention of “ISP (LIR)” or a glossary note was
never meant as a permanent dual-term solution. I agree that the end state
should be LIR everywhere in the NRPM, to align with global terminology and
reduce ambiguity.

My concern is the transition. Many members are still used to “ISP” in ARIN
policy language. A simple first-reference note and glossary mapping (“ISP =
LIR in ARIN context”) would give people a smoother on-ramp while ARIN
phases out the older term.

This way we get to the same destination—LIR consistently in policy—but with
less confusion along the way.

Best,
Mohibul Mahmud



On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 4:42 PM David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <
arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2025 at 9:32 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis at lewis.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2025, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>>
>> > Please explain what is confusing about the current usage of both LIR
>> and ISP?
>> > The following Blog post from ARIN seems perfectly straightforward to me;
>> >  https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/
>> >
>> > And the following page is about Requesting IP addresses.
>> > https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/
>> >
>> >
>> > They both seem to address the idea that LIR and ISP are effectively the
>> same thing.
>>
>> Just a week ago, I asked if someone could give examples of how an ARIN
>> member could be an LIR and not be an ISP, and was told "there are ways".
>>
>> The page referenced above is confusing, because it simultaneously says
>> ISP
>> = LIR and LIR != ISP.  If an LIR is "generally" an ISP, then that
>> suggests
>> there are circumstances in which an LIR is not an ISP.
>>
>
> Many organizations reassign addresses to other organizations, acting as
> LIRs, but don't consider themselves to be ISPs, at least not by most common
> definitions of the term. Some examples are Government Agencies,
> Universities, and Education (K-12) Service Organizations. In the private
> sector, managed service providers (MSPs) provide outsourced technology
> solutions for hospitals and other organizations. They contract with ISPs on
> behalf of their customers, and therefore don't think of themselves as ISPs
> but as an intermediary that manages ISPs for their customers. In the
> broadest sense, yes, they could all be called ISPs, but if the definition
> of ISP is too narrow, there could exist LIRs that are not ISPs.
>
> On top of that, there are also political or regulatory reasons why some
> LIRs don't want to be known as ISPs, regardless of how broad you make the
> definition of the term ISP.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
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> University of Minnesota
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