<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><br>Just to clarify: my earlier mention of “ISP (LIR)” or a glossary note was never meant as a permanent dual-term solution. I agree that the end state should be LIR everywhere in the NRPM, to align with global terminology and reduce ambiguity.<br><br>My concern is the transition. Many members are still used to “ISP” in ARIN policy language. A simple first-reference note and glossary mapping (“ISP = LIR in ARIN context”) would give people a smoother on-ramp while ARIN phases out the older term.<br><br>This way we get to the same destination—LIR consistently in policy—but with less confusion along the way.<br><br>Best,<br>Mohibul Mahmud<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 4:42 PM David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 20, 2025 at 9:32 PM Jon Lewis <<a href="mailto:jlewis@lewis.org" target="_blank">jlewis@lewis.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, 19 Sep 2025, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
<br>
> Please explain what is confusing about the current usage of both LIR and ISP?<br>
> The following Blog post from ARIN seems perfectly straightforward to me;<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/</a><br>
> <br>
> And the following page is about Requesting IP addresses.<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> They both seem to address the idea that LIR and ISP are effectively the same thing.<br>
<br>
Just a week ago, I asked if someone could give examples of how an ARIN <br>
member could be an LIR and not be an ISP, and was told "there are ways".<br>
<br>
The page referenced above is confusing, because it simultaneously says ISP <br>
= LIR and LIR != ISP. If an LIR is "generally" an ISP, then that suggests <br>
there are circumstances in which an LIR is not an ISP.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Many organizations reassign addresses to other organizations, acting as LIRs, but don't consider themselves to be ISPs, at least not by most common definitions of the term. Some examples are Government Agencies, Universities, and Education (K-12) Service Organizations. In the private sector, managed service providers (MSPs) provide outsourced technology solutions for hospitals and other organizations. They contract with ISPs on behalf of their customers, and therefore don't think of themselves as ISPs but as an intermediary that manages ISPs for their customers. In the broadest sense, yes, they could all be called ISPs, but if the definition of ISP is too narrow, there could exist LIRs that are not ISPs. </div><div><br></div><div>On top of that, there are also political or regulatory reasons why some LIRs don't want to be known as ISPs, regardless of how broad you make the definition of the term ISP.</div><div> </div></div><div>Thanks.</div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div></div>
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