[arin-ppml] ARIN-2023-8 - Reduce 4.1.8 Maximum Allocation
John Santos
john at egh.com
Thu Aug 15 16:32:14 EDT 2024
Sorry, Mike, I meant to send it to the list. For some reason, Thunderbird only
displayed a "reply" button and "reply-all" was grayed out. I glanced at the
"from:" and thought it was the mailing list; I obviously didn't look at the
address closely enough! 45 years of email experience and still screwing it up!
I will forward to the list...
Thanks for letting me know.
- John
On 8/15/2024 2:33 PM, Mike Burns wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I understand, you were arguing against Bill's comments/suggestions and not the policy proposal.
>
> You replied only to me.
> I don't mind if you place this back on the list if you want.
>
> What do you think about the proposed policy as written, and the grandfathering options the shepherds offered?
> What about re-justifying if the wait is over two years?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Santos <john at egh.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2024 2:02 PM
> To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2023-8 - Reduce 4.1.8 Maximum Allocation
>
> Hi Mike (and Bill and everyone else) -
>
> I wasn't arguing against the policy proposal. I was arguing against Bill's suggestion that:
> > >> I'd like to see a concrete proposal along the lines of releasing
> > >> waitlist addresses to the brokers for sale or directly auctioning them
> > >> off as they become available.
> and his assertion:
> > >> [...] If your need can afford to
> > >> wait three years to fulfill it with addresses, how does that not say
> > >> everything that needs to be said about its legitimacy?
> by providing a counterexample.
>
> These quotes are in the email I directly replied to.
>
> - John
>
> On 8/15/2024 8:20 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Off list
>>
>> The /22 came from the policy we're discussing. The use case you
>> mention, if they limped along, would be met by the proposed policy.
>> They would still get the /24 you mentioned so it wasn't really an
>> argument against the proposal. I should have said a /23 or /22 but the sentiment is the same.
>>
>> I wasn't clear enough, sorry about that.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 18:08:47 -0400 *john at egh.com * wrote ----
>>
>> Where did "/22" come from? I never said they need a /22. I just said they need
>> routable IPv4, and more than they can reasonably get from an ISP.
>>
>>
>> On 8/14/2024 5:07 PM, Mike Burns wrote:
>> > Hi John,
>> >
>> > Hi John,
>> >
>> > I can see the validity of that case, although it begs the question why an
>> entity that can limp along with a single address needs a /22.
>> > I concede the waitlist has worked for a long time and it was the best
>> solution for distributing free pool addresses when they existed in
>> reasonable quantities.
>> > Now, with the waitlist times eclipsing justification times, a change is
>> needed.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-
>> bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of John Santos
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 4:32 PM
>> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2023-8 - Reduce 4.1.8 Maximum Allocation
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/14/2024 3:58 PM, William Herrin wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 12:46 AM Gerry E.. George <ggeorge at digisolv.com
>> <mailto:ggeorge at digisolv.com>> wrote:
>> >>> As a co-shepherd on policy 2023-8 (Gerry George & Brian Jones) on
>> >>> Draft Policy ARIN-2023-8: Reduce 4.1.8 Maximum Allocation, I'm
>> >>> reaching out for additional feedback from the community on this
>> >>> policy following the robust discussions at and since ARIN-53.
>> >>
>> >> Hi Gerry,
>> >>
>> >> The wait list system is not really sane. If your need can afford to
>> >> wait three years to fulfill it with addresses, how does that not say
>> >> everything that needs to be said about its legitimacy?
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to see a concrete proposal along the lines of releasing
>> >> waitlist addresses to the brokers for sale or directly auctioning them
>> >> off as they become available. Maybe the mechanics won't work out, but
>> >> I'd like to see it and consider whether it's a reasonable idea after
>> >> the details are ironed out. Since these are returned blocks,
>> >> auctioning them explicitly would also allow bidders to evaluate their
>> >> reputation history when making an offer rather than getting stuck with
>> >> whatever random block comes up.
>> >>
>> >> In the interests of fairness to the folks who joined the wait list in
>> >> good faith, perhaps limit the first few auctions to folks already on
>> >> the waitlist before opening it up to the public at large.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Bill Herrin
>> >
>> > Perhaps the waiter has a use case that can limp along indefinitely using
>> an ISP-provided static address (with no real protection against it ever
>> changing) and a massive amount of NAT and RFC 1918 addresses, but it would
>> be far more effect if they had a real /24 of routable address space no
>> subject to the whims of their provider. It is working, but far from optimal,
>> and they are willing to wait a few years on the wait list. On the other
>> hand, they are a small business or a non-profit or an EDU or otherwise lack
>> deep pockets so they have to watch their budget. The wait list might not be
>> perfect, but it is the best solution to their needs.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > John Santos
>> > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
>> > 781-861-0670 ext 539
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> John Santos
>> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
>> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>>
>>
>
> --
> John Santos
> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>
--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539
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