[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jun 20, 2023, at 22:26, Ron Grant <ron+arin-ppml at balansoft.com> wrote:
> 
> That's not a lease, in the sense that's of concern. "Downstream" implies a connection. Let's call that "rent".

Well… If you can get language saying that into the NRPM, we can discuss it, but for now, as proposed, it’s a problem.

> ISPs "rent" IP blocks all the time - even for their own customers. $10/mo for a static IP address instead of a DHCP assigned one - a practice as old as the hills.

rent and lease are synonyms.
DHCP leases addresses. Nowhere have I ever seen a “DHCP rental”.

If a provider is providing addresses to their downstream customers without additional charge for them, can you really still call that a rental?
You can call it a lease.

> And business-based Internet is almost always a statically assigned CIDR subnet - for example one client of mine assigns a /29 for free, and charges an additional $1/ip for larger networks. That's rent. (ya I know, IANAL and the acronym speaks volumes)
> 
> Seems to me the thing that's got everyone tied in a knot is the idea of allowing someone to lease out a wait-listed network to someone with whom YOU HAVE NO OTHER BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP.

I really didn’t need the primer on how current IP services work at the consumer level. I’ve been doing this for quite some time and am pretty well familiar with the industry.

Seems to me the thing that’s got everyone tied in a not is the incredibly finite nature of IPv4 and a desire not to cope with the real problem at hand — People who haven’t yet adopted IPv6.

Owen

> 
> How to define that? Maybe "arm's length".....
> 
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arm%27s_length#:~:text=“Arm%27s%20length”%20is%20an%20expression,and%20in%20their%20self%2Dinterest.
> 
> 
> 
> On 2023-06-20 9:44 p.m., Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>> What if the registrant issues the addresses to downstream BGP customers?
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 20, 2023, at 15:16, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54 AM ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>>> Address space distributed from the waitlist will not be eligible for lease or transfer, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers, for a period of 60 months.
>>> Fuzzy language. What is leasing? Suggest something more like:
>>> 
>>> "If announced on the public Internet, address space distributed from
>>> the waitlist shall be announced only by the direct ARIN registrant
>>> until 60 months after receipt."
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Bill Herrin
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> William Herrin
>>> bill at herrin.us
>>> https://bill.herrin.us/
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> 
> -- 
> Ron Grant
> Balan Software/Networks
> Network Architecture & Programming
> 604-737-2113
> 
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