[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2021-6: Remove Circuit Requirement

[Fernando Frediani]

Mike, please refrain from saying that everything people say in this list 
against your ideas or interests is "ad hominem".

Chris points are perfectly valid and reasonable, but instead each and 
every time you face an message that you dislike in a discussion your may 
have interest you find a way to accuse others to use "ad hominem" 
arguments. Every time !
Different people have put different points in order to not support this 
proposal technically or not, most of these points make a fair amount of 
sense and there is nothing wrong to mention the interest certain parts 
of community as brokers have in these questions  as something isolated 
that not necessary benefit the community as a point to show the proposal 
may not be good to advance. Let people understand how they prefer and 
form their own opinion instead of everytime someone mentioned the word 
"broker" you get offended.

Some Brokers have been doing a good work in facilitating move of cold 
resources in the transfer market according to current policies from most 
RIRs, but unfortunately there have been situations where they seem to 
have been involved in controversial situations so it is fair for members 
of the community to look from a different perspective from anything 
proposed by a representative of this class and wish to scrutinize the 
matter more in deep.

Therefore don't get offended too quickly and try to focus on discussing 
the merit of the proposal because trying to clash with everyone that 
speaks out their opposition to a proposal will not make any good to 
advance it.

Regards
Fernando

On 21/09/2021 19:48, Mike Burns wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Not sure how experienced you are with this, but this proposal has only 
> been out for a few hours and any talk about "keeping it alive" is a 
> tad early.
>
> Also, you might brush up on the concept of ad hominem. It means 
> against the person(s). It could be only brokers who support a policy 
> and if there are no valid objections, that support should carry the day.
>
> Now, do you have any objections that you would care to share, other 
> than your original one (which I think Owen dispensed with)?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:37:43 -0400 *Chris Woodfield 
> <chris at semihuman.com>* wrote ----
>
>
>
>     > On Sep 21, 2021, at 2:47 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com
>     <mailto:mike at iptrading.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Hi Noah,
>     >
>     > Thanks for your thoughts, my replies are inline.
>     >
>     > “Transfers are generally a prerogative of brokers who don't
>     necessarily provide any form of network services. It does make
>     sense for a broker to defend this model.”
>     >
>     > Noah that is a meaningless ad hominem, every transfer has a
>     recipient.
>     >
>
>     You are not incorrect here - it takes two to tango, so to speak.
>     And brokers are an important segment of the ARIN community, to the
>     extent that representatives of IP brokers have been elected to the
>     ARIN AC.
>
>     That said, one of the requirements for a Draft Policy to move
>     forward to an RDP is, per section 4.3:, "Changes to policy must be
>     shown to have a strong level of support in the community in order
>     to be adopted.” Reading the replies to this thread so far, the
>     only community members that have voiced support for this proposal
>     have been representatives of IP brokers. Correct me if I’ve missed
>     any, but I see zero statements of support so far from members of
>     any other segment of the ARIN community.
>
>     I would be very surprised if the AC would advance to RDP a policy
>     proposal that has support of only one segment of the community,
>     and as far as I can tell, universal opposition from those who are
>     not in that segment. If you are an operator, ISP, or content
>     provider who would benefit from this, I would recommend that you
>     speak up in order to keep this proposal alive.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     -Chris
>
>     >
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