[arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System)

[Joe Maimon]

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> I didn't invent IPv6.  Not my circus not my monkeys.  I'm just a guy
> who listened to the experts when they said "we invented this IPv6 thing"
> then learned about it and used it.  I didn't listen to the experts and
> try to think up excuses for not doing what they said or try to figure 
> out ways to snake IPv4 away from other people.

The experts told you to waste your time and efforts so you did. Others 
did not. Perfectly predictable, which is why your efforts were wasteful 
and unnecessary at the time you spent them and exactly why others did 
not bother to do so, which in itself was predictable both as an outcome 
and as a reinforcing cause of outcome.
>
>
> The lesson is people shouldn't have dragged their feet on IPv6. 
The lesson is that when you want something to happen that depends on a 
very large majority of everyone else doing as you wish for little to no 
immediate gain to themselves likely means your not going to get it any 
time soon. That should be very clear to all.

> The experts told them what was coming, the experts built a 
> replacement, and
And the experts crippled its usefulness for any current need and the 
experts created this snail of a deployment model and the experts 
expected that the entire internet would do as they were told they ought 
to and the experts were too sure of their expertise to heed otherwise.

I dont share your faith in experts, because expertise does not translate 
into intelligent real world thinking as often as it should.

By actual real world results, turns out they weren't the experts they 
thought they were.

> the sheeple out there in networking and sysadmin land ignored it and
> now are being smacked around because they ignored it.

You talk about how you follow experts but you call those that didnt 
sheeple. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

For the most part, those that chose to ignore IPv6 deployment for as 
long as they did are not facing any actual negative effects of that 
decision, or worse for ipv6, experienced positive ones.

The ones who are facing the negative effects are those that were forced 
into depending on this failure to rescue them in any meaningful way in 
any sort of timely fashion.

>
>>>
>>> Just because kicking people's asses to get IPv6 deployed isn't going to
>>> help someone who doesn't have IP4 RIGHT NOW doesn't mean it's a wasted
>>> effort like you claim.
>>
>> The fact that it has failed for 20 years means exactly that.
>>
>
> It means nothing.
>
> Electric cars have been around for a century.  But claiming that they
> failed for 80 years means they are failing now is idiotic because
> they aren't failing now.

Name and shame, dual stack and wait (for all stacks to be dual stacked) 
is an utter failure because it failed for 20 years to help in any 
meaningful way the issues the internet is experiencing and continues to 
experience right here and right now. And yes it was predictable because 
its success depended not only on illogical expectations of human nature, 
but also in the technical requirement of matching IPv4 addresses which 
were known at the time would not be available.

Personally, expecting IPv6 will work sometime in the next 80 years is 
not encouraging to me and does little to cause me to choose to invest 
any further energy into it. But I encourage you to keep at that, because 
if nothing else works, perhaps we will have IPv6 in 80 years.

However, the longer this drags on the greater the odds that things we 
dont want will happen and irrevocably alter the landscape in ways we 
would not have wanted.

Worse for your analogy, electric car success can be wholly attributed to 
both new technology and manufacturers finally making cars that people 
actually wanted, and not just for the smug value.

If I havent gotten the point across that this is what IPv6 actually 
needs to be successful any time soon, there is little reason for 
continuing this conversation.

The goal should not be eventual IPv6 adoption by attrition. The goal 
should be meaningful solutions to actual issues, now and real soon. 
Hopefully sustainable ones, but the here and now means something to 
people living in it.

Joe