[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks

[Martin Hannigan]

No, and and actively regulating price is not a good idea. However, every
action has a reaction. Just as with any policy.  I remain opposed, but
appreciate the comments and efforts.

Best,

-M<



On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 2:22 PM Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> Hi Martin,
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> Are we regulating for price now?
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> Your numbers seem accurate to me.
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> Regards,
> Mike
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> *From:* Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 01, 2019 1:53 PM
> *To:* Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> *Cc:* Jim <mysidia at gmail.com>; John Santos <john at egh.com>; ARIN-PPML List
> <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP
> Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks
>
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> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:37 PM Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> Jim wrote:
> I am opposed to proposal that ARIN should in general be facilitating
> entities
> being able to obtain from ARIN   permanent allocations made to
> support  temporary use for non-connected networks.    It sounds like
> creating an inviting environment for potential spammers and fraud, and
> LIRs/ISPs should not be involved in this.
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> More hand-waving about spam and fraud that doesn't exist and ignoring the
> obvious need that does exist. A market has arisen to meet the need, that
> proves the need exists. A google search confirms this for everybody.  But
> the environment you exists and has not generated spam and fraud.
>
> This is why I point to RIPE. They have what you refer to as "policy
> facilitating enties being able to obtain from (the RIR) permanent
> allocations made to support temporary use for non-connected networks." You
> say this will create an inviting environment for more of the spooky
> consequences I have heard about for almost 10 years now. Spooky
> consequences
> absent from RIPE. Or can you find them there?
>
>
>
> I'm opposed to it, but for different reasons. I worry about the cash flows
> building against leased numbers and creating a situation where it increases
> costs on the transfer market by competition for space. I'm seeing /24's at
> $90 MRC. That's roughly $4 per address per year leased vs. $21 on the
> transfer market. I agree, probably not abused any more than anything else.
> For me, it sends the wrong message transition wise.
>
>
> Can it be more clear?  RIPE has had NO NEEDS TEST FOR YEARS.  We have
> performed the experiment, why ignore the results?
> If I want to become a Lessor, yet another reason to incorporate in Europe,
> I
> guess. There is no restriction in RIPE in the purchasing of addresses for
> the purpose of leasing them out, nor for the leasing part.
> A recipe for registry-shopping and address-flight.
>
>
>
> I mostly agree with you. RIPE is a different region though and has
> different allocation patterns and concerns about their registry inventory.
> RIPE policy makers seem to feel that exhausting and a liberal market is the
> fastest way to transition.At least that's how I read it sometimes. I'm not
> going to judge if they are right or wrong. ARIN network operators tend to
> want to be more independent and there are many examples where the world
> goes left and NA goes right, infrastructure wise. Just the nature of the
> beast. I don't think everyone understands that there actually is common
> policy (via the ASO process and IANA) and then globally coordinated, more
> like a treaty. Its just not everything. But there is more in common than
> not.
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> Best,
>
>
>
> -M<
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> Regards,
> Mike
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